ET-8550 media type for profiling

[Epatcola]

An ET-8550 arrived, is filled with 105/106/114 ink, and now I need to create some profiles. So back to the question I had with the ET-7750 - what media type for what paper?

There are 4 non-matt media types available in the driver

Ultra Glossy
Premium Glossy
Premium Semigloss
Glossy

The installed profiles for these types are as far as I can tell are identical which makes me question if choosing one or another makes any difference to the printing process.

I profiled some cheap glossy paper using each of these media settings. I set quality to high for all but Ultra Glossy which I profiled with high and best settings.

The 4 high quality profiles look very similar. The Ultra Glossy best profile was different showing a bit more volume, more linear mid range, and darker black. The best setting takes around 50% longer to print. I wonder if that best setting uses some BK ink to help with blacks the same as the VFA media setting does.

I think I am of the opinion that for non-matt papers there is no point profiling or using anything other than Ultra Glossy media type with best and maybe also high quality settings.

I guess for matt papers I will profile with Matt and VFA media settings and see which looks best.

I note that ET-8550 profiles from Fotospeed only use Premium Semigloss and Archival Matt (I assume that is VFA equivalent) media settings. Profiles from Permajet and RR seem to use media settings vaguely matching the paper type.

Does anyone know more on this subject?

 

[thebestcpu]

Hi @Epatcola
I had to go through the same thing with my Epson P900 recently. Here is the link to look up the setting to use for different Epson paper types. As well as a cut and paste of the table:

Epson Settings for different Epson papers

The only issue is that these are for Epson papers and for what comes up in the print driver. The settings are based on the material and coating for each document so the printer knows how much ink to lay down for the best resolution results and color rendition. I am not surprised that the ICC profiles are not much different, yet I suspect using different paper settings in the printer driver per that above table would make a larger difference since it has more to do with how much ink is laid down.

For non-Epson papers, your mileage may vary, and it is best to connect online to see what they say about what settings to use or use trial and error to see what gives you the best results.

I used to profile papers with a photo spectrometer, and of course, each profile would only be valid for the paper set I used when printing the test square patterns for the profiling.

Life got too busy and short; I eventually just went with Epson papers, Epson profiles, and Epson settings, e.g., per the table above. It costs a bit more out of pocket, yet I bought that cost back in saved time, given that I was not printing in relatively low volume.

The other issue with cheap paper may be the consistency from batch to batch purchased.

Sorry, I can't help with your more detailed questions yet it brought back memories of the same types of questions I asked in times past.
John Wheeler

BTW - as an aside, I recently tested the resolution of various Epson and Hahmenühlw papers both photo and fine art. I was pretty amazed that when using the same quality setting and the advised Epson paper setting in the printer driver, all the photo papers (and the coated Exhibition paper) all came out on top of each other on resolution in both X and Y directions of resolution using the USAF resolution measurement chart on the print. That was not the case for the fine art papers. That gave me some confidence that Epson knew what they were doing in the paper settings to use for their different photo papers. FYI

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

the different paper settings may go with different ink limit settings for different papers - an ink limit per color and a total for mixed colors - mixed as C+M+Y+B; different coatings need different ink limits - you may otherwise get ink puddles on the paper - with by far too much ink for a given coating . And there is another effect - a saturation reversal - more ink may not give you a wider gamut and color saturation but the opposite - a smaller gamut for a higher ink density. That's effects you cannot control with a profile but with a pre-profile parameter setting - some profiling programs give you the option to do a linearization step before you run the actual profile generation.
And be aware that the ET-8550 has 2 black inks - the selection - both or one black ink happens as well via the paper selection - glossy papers only use the photoblack, normal and matte papers use both and the Velvet paper only uses the matte black ink.
Glossy and semiglossy papers are of the same type - the paper surface just has been modified with a last production step - the surface structure is pressed into the coating with the paper passing through big rollers. So Premium glossy and premium glossy silk can use the same profile - or glossy and semiglossy . It's more difficult with 3rd party papers - you either follow the manufacturer's recommendation or do your own tests - you run profiles with different paper settings and select the onw which gives you the widest gamut.

 

[Epatcola]

When I profile the same paper with 4 different glossy media settings and get 4 pretty much identical profiles how can the printer be doing anything different other than possibly changing dot patterns which would not show on solid color swatches?

The driver installs 5 non-matt profiles only 4 of which are media settings I can select in the driver. All 5 are identical with gamut volumes matching to 3 decimal places. If the driver/printer does something different depending on media setting why is there no difference between these profiles?

I just don't believe the driver and printer does anything different based on these 5 media settings except for Ultra Glossy best quality setting which produced a significantly different profile while there isn't an Epson profile for that setting which is kinda crappy.

The list thebestcpu posted suggests using Ultra Glossy and VFA media settings for VFA paper which is also bizarre.
I am wondering if the VFA media setting ends up printing the same as Ultra Glossy Best. I will profile the same cheap glossy with VFA media setting and see what happens.

 

[thebestcpu]

Hi @Epatcola
I have yet to dig into the details of the differences in settings for those different paper types.
I am unsurprised that it does not change the gamut/profile for photo papers since the tests are done on relatively big test squares.

I expect differences to be in other areas, such as the effective end resolution of the print. Here is a table of some things that can be adjusted based on paper type (this is not the 8550 table). Yet hope this gives you a feel for what the printer may be doing differently to optimize the print in many ways other than color:

For example, the color density (and possibly drying tie) would impact the resolution. Different papers/coatings will absorb and spread the ink differently (resolution impact). ]
For some models, the paper thickness is dialed into printer head positioning so the ink spray is not too close or too far away from the paper.
Some only apply if the printer also has a cutter.

So, some of the impacts may be more subtle, yet you would not see significant differences in ICC profiles for a given class of papers (e.g., coated).

I am also confident most printer companies want to make the printing experience as easy as possible for the consumer, yet not at the expense of important bragging rights characteristics such as measured resolution.

 

[Epatcola]

may be doing differently

I am not suggesting that printers can't do all kinds of things depending on media settings. I am looking for evidence that the ET-8550 does any of those things dependant on which of its 5 glossy media settings is used.

As far as I can tell it doesn't which means there is no need to worry about which of those 5 glossy media settings to choose when profiling non-epson papers.

 

[thebestcpu]

I am not suggesting that printers can't do all kinds of things depending on media settings. I am looking for evidence that the ET-8550 does any of those things dependant on which of its 5 glossy media settings is used.

As far as I can tell it doesn't which means there is no need to worry about which of those 5 glossy media settings to choose when profiling non-epson papers.

Hi @Epatcola
You are asking good questions. Since I have recently done resolution tests on several papers, I thought your questions would be worth running an experiment to see if there were any resolution differences when using the same paper, the same ICC profile, and only changing the media type for the paper.

First, I could measure no difference among the four test prints.

The four test prints were all on the basic Espon Paper Glossy and using the Epson Paper Glossy ICC profile, the same quality setting "best," and then using the following four media types with each of the four test prints
1) Media: Glossy
2) Media: Premium Glossy
3) Media: Premium Semi-Glossy
4) Media: Ultra Premium Luster

Here is an image of my test print that is precisely 720 ppi. The USAF resolution chart was derived from a vector image and rendered to 720 ppi in the image:

Here is a rotated and blown up and highlighted version of the resolution chart.
The green area is Group "-2" Elements 1 (in lower right) and then elements 2 to 6 on the left
The Cyan Area is Group -1 with Elements 1 through 6 on the right from top to bottom.

Here is how you read that chart from this excel sheet:

That pattern repeats over and over getting smaller and smaller.
When you reach a group and element that is the last one where you can resolve the three bars in each element, you look up the resolution as you answer.

Note, here is what a zoomed up view of Groups 2 and 3 (and inside that Groups 4 and 5) look like in a 720ppi image for reference: The last set of lines that can be read is Group 4 element 1. And if you look up the resolution of that pair it is 812 ppi (pretty close to the 720 ppi of the image)

If I have not lost you yet, I took my Nikon ZII and macro lens and took an image of the resolution chart and here are the image results for each below. Note, the last resolve bars are Group 3 element 3 consistently for all images taken independent of the media type selected for the print.

Glossy Paper, Glossy ICC Profile, Glossy Media Sett

Glossy Paper, Glossy ICC Profile, Premium Glossy Media Setting

Glossy Paper, Glossy ICC Profile, Premium Semi Glossy Media Setting

Glossy Paper, Glossy ICC Profile, Ultra Premium Luster Media Setting

The media profiles may have some differences related to quality settings or which printer is being used, yet these are all amazingly similar.

Also, note that all the Epson photo papers I tested previously also came out with a similar resolution.

So, differences may exist, yet those differences were not shown in this limited simple test.

Also, just so you know, on a subjective basis, looking at the overall test image and colors, tone, etc, I could not tell any difference among those four different test prints.

I did these tests from Photoshop with Photoshop managing the printer and the printer settings all set from the printer settings in the Print panel of Photoshop.

FYI

John Wheeler

 

[Epatcola]

Thanks for sharing your resolution testing results. You didn't say what printer you used.

For the investigation I have been using really cheap crappy gloss photo paper. The ET-8550 feed rollers leave indentations and I see pin wheel holes. I still consider it adequate for comparisons.

I tried profiling the VFA media setting on it and gave up because ink rubbed off a few of the darkest patches. On the completely black patch, black lines and text the ink rubbed off with a tissue leaving just very pale grey. I was surprised how little BK ink soaks into this paper. From that I can also conclude the Ultra Glossy Best setting uses very little and likely no BK ink.

I also note that the ET-8550 mechanism is capable of 5 print head gap settings.

Thin paper
plain and photo papers
envelopes
card (rear slot feed only)
thicker card (rear slot feed only) and CDs

So media setting for all plain and photo papers use the same head gap.

I have started profiling the papers I have. I will profile all glossy papers with Ultra Glossy high and Ultra Glossy best. Matt papers I will profile with VFA and Matt high. I will look at the profiles and do some test prints to see which choices look best.

 

[thebestcpu]

You’re welcome @Epatcola
The printer used was the same as in my profile and forgot to include it in the text. I used my Epson SC P 900 printer with Epson Glossy paper and Epson OEM inks. Printed from a MacBook Pro 2001 M1. Firmware and printer driver were up to date. I may redo part of the test where the printer controls the settings instead of Photoshop.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I was surprised how little BK ink soaks into this paper.

That's with the VFA setting which uses the pigment inks only; pigments don't soak as much into the paper as dye inks - the pigments are larger.

Pigment inks smear off on glossy papers

Printing software Qimage simply tells you which resolution is active with an image and which particular driver settings call for a particular printer resolution. It used all colors.

You may use the clarkvision pattern for resolution test and use it with the genuine printer resolutions 360/720 ppi or 600/300 ppi

Be aware that an icc profile can contain a proprietary section of data which only can exercised by a user program - e.g. the overall parameter settings in the driver, so some driver parameters can access profile data you don't see , a profile this way could contain data of more then one profile, or changes its contents when parameters are variied like quality settings.