Do pigment inks fade slower than dye inks ?

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Personally I think the main reason why such blanket statements need revisiting and reviewing is because what constituted a "dye" versus a "pigment" has changed enormously in the last 10+ years, particularly in the last 6 or so.

Dye inks are no longer the sole domain of plant/bio' based compounds and pigments are no longer a basic ground paste of minerals diluted in a chemical base. There has been considerable work gone into creating synthetic dyes made up of solvents, co-solvents and materials that earlier chemists probably only dreamed of. Similarly pigments have been refined with encapsulation, ionic charging and more... With that has come the ability to lock down the processes in intellectual property laws so that third parties (including competing OEMs) have had to take the left-overs that don't perform as well.

In laypersons terms though, when you speak of compatible inks it's still very much pigment = less fading, dye = more vibrancy and as has been mentioned you do indeed have to balance budget, need, etc... carefully before committing... but as ever there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Interesting though that we've now reached a point where refilling is far more feasible with OEM inks from the likes of wideformat carts, CIS based OEM printer (Ecotank, etc) and to be able to get the quality, longevity with it... Quite a lot to revisit and rethink I guess...

 

[kalides]

i find these threads very interesting. my first inkjets were Novajets, and colorspan drum printers, and the prints did not last very long. i guess the new inks are so far byond those inks it is like alli oop.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I did a short 14 day test to compare the Epson 106 dye inks with a set of pigment inks, these are a mix from earlier tests with an Epson P400, it is a mix of some Epson P800 inks which I got from a member of the druckerchannel forum, I ordered some Canon PFI 105 cartridges which I drained, and there are traces of Aomya Chinese inks.
What do I see after 2 weeks - colors have not changed that much yet that differences in fading are clearly visible, measurements are possible and show the trend:

The pigment ink mix fades slower than the 106 dye inks - the averaged deltaE is 3.03 for pigment inks and 5.90 for the 106 inks, a more detailed look to the colors show which colors fade faster than other colors - it is the cyan dye with a deltaE of 9.82 vs. 5.31 for the pigment ink, it's different for the magenta inks - dye 4.07 to pigment 4.02 magenta - the magenta inks show the same fading speed. Both blacks - pigment and dye - perform very well with a deltaE of 1/dye and 0.42/pigment black, there is no shift to brown at all at this time.

My mix of pigment inks has a benefit in this case over the Epson 106 inks ; as already shown above in the Wilhelm Research test results depend very much on the inkset and their version and the papers used for those tests. This test does not compare a weak 3rd party dye ink like Inktec inks with some pigment inks ( Inktec or other) which will most likely show a much wider improvement with the pigment inks over such weak dye inks.

So does it make sense to switch to pigment inks from dye inks just for the reason to improve the longevity of a print - it depends - it depends on the inks in combination with a particular paper whether this or that ink delivers a better result.

I just remember the HP Premium Plus Photo paper which gives the best longevity - more to dye inks than to pigments as tested longer time ago.

 

[stg]

I did a short 14 day test to compare the Epson 106 dye inks with a set of pigment inks, these are a mix from earlier tests with an Epson P400, it is a mix of some Epson P800 inks which I got from a member of the druckerchannel forum, I ordered some Canon PFI 105 cartridges which I drained, and there are traces of Aomya Chinese inks.
What do I see after 2 weeks - colors have not changed that much yet that differences in fading are clearly visible, measurements are possible and show the trend:

The pigment ink mix fades slower than the 106 dye inks - the averaged deltaE is 3.03 for pigment inks and 5.90 for the 106 inks, a more detailed look to the colors show which colors fade faster than other colors - it is the cyan dye with a deltaE of 9.82 vs. 5.31 for the pigment ink, it's different for the magenta inks - dye 4.07 to pigment 4.02 magenta - the magenta inks show the same fading speed. Both blacks - pigment and dye - perform very well with a deltaE of 1/dye and 0.42/pigment black, there is no shift to brown at all at this time.

My mix of pigment inks has a benefit in this case over the Epson 106 inks ; as already shown above in the Wilhelm Research test results depend very much on the inkset and their version and the papers used for those tests. This test does not compare a weak 3rd party dye ink like Inktec inks with some pigment inks ( Inktec or other) which will most likely show a much wider improvement with the pigment inks over such weak dye inks.

So does it make sense to switch to pigment inks from dye inks just for the reason to improve the longevity of a print - it depends - it depends on the inks in combination with a particular paper whether this or that ink delivers a better result.

I just remember the HP Premium Plus Photo paper which gives the best longevity - more to dye inks than to pigments as tested longer time ago.

Isn't it a good idea to swap106cyan with 673cyan? According to these measurements 673c has a good performance:
https://www.printerknowledge.com/th...-on-windows-behavior.15445/page-4#post-135452

But I'm not sure if it is better than 106c. It's not included in the test.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I tested the 0673 inkset of the L800/805/1800 longer time ago, it fades slower than the weak inks like the 664 etc inks but are not as stable as the 106 or 114 inks , the 106 inks are as good/slightly better than the 114 inks and cheaper at the same time.

 

[Nikos Grigoriadis]

I tested the 0673 inkset of the L800/805/1800 longer time ago, it fades slower than the weak inks like the 664 etc inks but are not as stable as the 106 or 114 inks , the 106 inks are as good/slightly better than the 114 inks and cheaper at the same time.

You think that the new 108 inks for epson L8050 will perform like
0673 or like 106 inks?

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

You think that the new 108 inks for epson L8050 will perform like
0673 or like 106 inks?

I just don't know at this time - I have the impression that Epson has not loaded all detail data yet onto their internet pages for the new printers, the L8050 A4 is reported to be shipped with new 108 inks, Epson has added the ET-18100 to the Western European range of printers - an A3 model as an renamed L18050 , as well A3, and this ET-18100 is shipping with new 107 inks - all inks - 107 or 108 - are like 6 color inksets with light colors, images of bottles so far don't show any 'Claria' or Claria ET or similar signs on the bottle images so only time and some tests will show.
I'm currently running an L805 I'm happy with , and I use the 106 inks; Epson is creating quite some confusion with renaming the inks for every new ET... or L... printer model.

 

[Nikos Grigoriadis]

I just don't know at this time - I have the impression that Epson has not loaded all detail data yet onto their internet pages for the new printers, the L8050 A4 is reported to be shipped with new 108 inks, Epson has added the ET-18100 to the Western European range of printers - an A3 model as an renamed L18050 , as well A3, and this ET-18100 is shipping with new 107 inks - all inks - 107 or 108 - are like 6 color inksets with light colors, images of bottles so far don't show any 'Claria' or Claria ET or similar signs on the bottle images so only time and some tests will show.
I'm currently running an L805 I'm happy with , and I use the 106 inks; Epson is creating quite some confusion with renaming the inks for every new ET... or L... printer model.

So for now is better to use 106 inks at my 1500w i just purchase.

 

[Engine-Number9]

What does Canon GI stand for. I know CL is chromalife, and PG is pigment.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

What does Canon GI stand for. I know CL is chromalife, and PG is pigment.

What does the 'G' stand for in the printer name G550 or G650 - I don't know - the GI inks are most likely the Inks for the G-series printers