Do I have a problem with dry sponges

[martin0reg]

The two-sponge-design seems to be extensively explained, thanks to mikling.
It would be very interesting to have look at the canon production, how the machine fills a new cartridge leaving this little white area in the upper sponge.
But for us refillers it is important to keep in mind that you actually can NOT control the "filling" of the sponge as we only fill the reservoir. The sponge has to suck it the right way, resulting in a fully saturated lower sponge and a less saturated upper.

...As the ink is further consumed, the top layer will empty itself first and eventually it will become drained. At a certain point, the top portion will have so little ink that it doesn't want to give up what little it has ( if any) and the tank takes over. When this happens, because the top is drained and is quite porous, air will travel down through the top sponge and reach the slits/grooves. ( The fact that the slits/grooves are there and allow air to travel down WITHOUT the saturated sponge blocking the travel is what allows the German method of refilling to work. FWIW that is why the hole created in the german method does not leak ink. The sponge properties hold the ink at a certain saturation level and does not let ink out)

Remarks:
- the german method also works on non-oem-carts with only one sponge. I have tried it. Ink flows, air exchanges (perhaps not as smooth as with two sponges and groovy wall) and NO dripping. It works without leaking for the same reason as the non leaking outlet port itself.
- and thinking about websnails concerns..

..
The lower sponge is highly absorbent and, while the top sponge, is less so the path of least resistance and greatest head pressure is the sponge-less tank. Given the location of the gap between the sponge/sponge-less sections it would seem reasonable to deduce the ink in the tank is absorbed into the lower sponge section as its own volume is used up.
I suggest that the sponge above still has more resistance to letting its ink go than the sponge-less section so perhaps where there might be some concern is with regard to what happens when the sponge-less tank is empty.
...

..this could be the reason for dried out ink in the upper sponge and resulting problems regarding air flow and also refilling in general.

PS: the very first advice in this thread seems to be wrong...

kind regards,
spongebob

 

[stratman]

PS: the very first advice in this thread seems to be wrong...

Which advice are you referring to and why does it seem to be wrong?

 

[Tin Ho]

If you look at the fibres on the edges you can see the textural differences between the sponges.

How did you miss it that the fibers are running horizontally? You pictures show that clearly, don't they?

My suggestion to you. Stop making your own interpretation from the look of your pictures. Look for Canon patent documents. That's where you will get a real clue.

T. Hollenback

 

[Tin Ho]

This is after a few German trials on the bottom sponge. Gauge used was 20. Affect performance? not really but not comforting either though.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/mikord/2011-07-2022-00-12_2125.jpg

Your understanding of how the sponge works is wrong. This picture proves it. There is nothing wrong with the German Method. You can pierce the sponge a thousand times and the cartridge will still work. You still don't get it. Why? Because the fiber runs in the direction of the needle. You never knew this fact.

T. Hollenback

 

[Tin Ho]

Mikling, if you have a hard time understanding how the fiber runs in the the horizontal direction you can look at a piece of yarn found in this site:
http://store.knitting-warehouse.com/yarn-caron-dazzleaire.html

The fiber in a yarn thread is running in the direction of the length of the thread. You can cut maybe 100 pieces of a yarn thread each about 1.5 inch long. You can laminate and compress all of them together and make a sponge like the one used in Canon ink cartridges. Make no mistakes. This is only to give you a simplified picture of how the sponge is made of course.

T. Hollenback

 

[mikling]

Who said that the german method did not work? Did I? If so, prove it. I never said that and for those that did accuse me of that. I am expecting a full retraction.

I said that the fact that it leaves a groove was not comforting as it left some damage which did not hamper the performance. But I am not comforted by that permanent tunnel when there is also an alternative that leaves no damage whatsoever. The user can choose whatever method they prefer. I told Rod that just skip back and reread.

TH Yes, I have hard time understanding. Pleas explain it to me and show me some pics of the work you have done. I do not get it.

So why is the traditional method so bad when the user already has storage clips and plugs that do not leak already installed?

I gotta catch up on how the prez is going to cut expenses and how the heck Euro countries are going to pay for the loans and not hit the poor taxpayers in France and Germany. The "german method" seems to be putting the burden of greece on the german taxpayers. That's the real german method. THAT is more pressing for me now.

I'm more worried about that. KLUNK...KLUNK did I hear a can get kicked?

Bye

 

[Redbrickman]

I'm more worried about that. KLUNK...KLUNK did I hear a can get kicked?

Bye

That made my night Mikling, I find it really amusing...

I'm off to find a full one now

 

[slocumeddie]

There are many reasons Canon does not fill up the top sponge. You are ignoring those important reasons to make a statement like this one.

Tin Ho.........could you please list a few of the many reasons Canon does not fill up the top sponge ?

Thanks !

I patiently await you answer !

Could you also provide a link or links to the Canon patent documents that you mention in several of your posts ?

Could you also post some pictures of your work ?

Oh.....Ho.....Thanks for mentioning me in post #30.....OUCH !!

P.S. I am not Chinese..........

 

[rodbam]

Chinese copycat cheap crap compatibles can't copy patented Canon design.

I find it hard to believe the Chinese have any problems copying patented designs as some of the stuff they sell are identical to the real thing. A friend of mine was selling rip off Ipods on Ebay & he received a letter from Ebay telling him to take them off his site because Apple lawyers had complained about them. Why didn't the Apple lawyers stop the Chinese company from making the Ipods if the Chinese won't infringe on copyrights? I can't imagine the Chinese would have a problem or be scared to copy a bit of patented felt in an ink cartridge. Why they don't do it I don't know maybe they don't think it's important to the workings of a cartridge, I think other OEM cartridges have a one piece sponge that works perfectly well.
It would be so easy for Canon to make a sponge that started to break down when the sponge is either dryer or past a used by date, this would stop us in our tracks from using their cartridges for refilling & I'm sure we would eventually find a Chinese cartridge that works perfectly well.
As far as the groove left in the sponge from the German method, I agree with Mike if we assume the patented sponges in Canon cartridges are scientifically designed to work in a certain way & we start putting holes & groves in this sponge it can't be a good thing even though we can see the cartridge prints normally. So either the sponge is just a cheap way of regulating the supply so it doesn't really matter if we poke holes & grooves in it or it's a scientifically designed component that we shouldn't be messing with unless we understand the science behind it.
Gawd I almost sound like a Guru in this post even though I know bugger all a

 

[websnail]

We're getting off track here but on the issue of patent protection...

Just a thought... The reason you no longer see Epson cartridges with any form of sponge/foam is, according to the third party consumable manufacturers (and sellers), the spongeless design is "much better" and creates greater capacity, etc... or is it something to do with the "sponge in a box" patent that Epson hold?

Either way, lately, if you follow the various printer/ink related blogs, etc... you'll note that the the various brands have been getting more and more litigious and using customs/border controls to block or impose heavy import tax levies on items that ostensibly break their patents.

Don't believe me, please do a bit of digging back to what happened with MIS Associates (inksupply.com) when Epson threatened them and others roughly 6+ years ago.


Anyway.. In terms of making a point... Can I suggest it's far better to provide evidence to demonstrate your points and prove them rather than name calling... If nothing else it makes it much more likely others will listen.