CLI-526 TopFill

[The Hat]

I am sorry guys but I cant go along with Lins interpretation on how to correctly refill a purged cartridge.

Trying to refill the cartridge with ink when the sponge is very dry can always be difficult,
however air can pass through the dried sponge freely not so the ink,
it all depend on how dry the sponge actually is as to how long the ink absorption will take.

Some colours are less affected by the dryness but most still will take longer than normal to properly soak into the sponge,
even with the air maze and refill hole left open indefinitely, and thats my point..

 

[lin]

Hat my dear, I did not said to refill purged cartridge or very dry sponge under 1 minutes or less. If the sponge does not absorb fast, take your time to slowly refill for a purge cartridge or a very dry sponge. If you want to seal with the plug and let the ink settle for a couple of minutes, a few hours to full absorb by all means. And then repeat and top up some more ink into the ink chamber if it is not fill with enough ink. The weighing machines will tells that you have underrefill if the sponge wasn't absorbing enough ink and the refilled cartridge is "underweight ", for which you would have to refill further to achieve the weight/ml.

It's obvious for a dry very sponge, it takes time to refill and for the sponge to absorb the ink.

My point is about the vent/air inlet hole should not be sealed so soon or cover up at the initial stage before one start to inject ink to refill so that air and ink exchange process can take place and the sponge to absorb with ink.

I had purged my cartridges frequently and I had been refilling since when, and you think I wouldn't know if the cartridge has been purge and the sponge become very dry, the sponge absorb ink slowly and it would take times?

 

[mrelmo]

it seems the main issue here is how much ink is in the sponge when the reservior is empty, with the new dark cartridges we can not tell, someone who still uses Cli-8 cartridges could do a test fill as they can see the sponge, i would recommend covering the vent maze with your thumb or putty fill the reservior then remove your thumb and watch how much ink is absorbed by the sponge, at this time cover the maze again top off the reservior plug the reservior, uncover the maze vent and watch the sponge, so weighing the cartridge as tudor suggest is the best method to get a full cartridge without over filling

 

[Tudor]

Is overfilling CLIs really a big problem? I mean with pigment inks you'll get in trouble after a few refills and have to purge, but dyes... How many refills would it take to clog a dye cartridge if you overfill each time?

 

[lin]

it seems the main issue here is how much ink is in the sponge when the reservior is empty, with the new dark cartridges we can not tell, someone who still uses Cli-8 cartridges could do a test fill as they can see the sponge, i would recommend covering the vent maze with your thumb or putty fill the reservior then remove your thumb and watch how much ink is absorbed by the sponge, at this time cover the maze again top off the reservior plug the reservior, uncover the maze vent and watch the sponge, so weighing the cartridge as tudor suggest is the best method to get a full cartridge without over filling

Yes, what you mentioned certainly can be done and it's the same, because you are allowing the air and ink exchange process to take place when you remove/release the thumb/finger or putty from the vent/air inlet hole at some stages and then refill again. That is to say, you can cover the vent hole/air inlet hole with thumb/finger or putty or whatever initially by all means if you like or wants to, then fill the ink chamber with ink while holding the cartridge at 45 degree angle, and then remove the thumb/finger/putty to allow the air from sponge compartment and ink from the ink chamber exchange process to take place, and for which the sponge to get absorb the ink. And then cover the vent hole/air inlet hole again, to top up ink further into the ink chamber to fill it up, then seal with a plug. Weigh the cartridge to see if it's underrefill and see if further refill is necessary. If one want it to sits the cartridge for a while for the ink to moves slightly and absorb/wick itself to get the ink settle before next topup to achieve the full cartridge weight by all means. But one must at some point release your finger/thumb or putty that is covering the vent hole/air inlet hole for the air and ink exchange process to take place. Whether it's inital stage or middle that one covers up and release/remove the finger/thumb or putty at whichever stage of the refilling process, it doesn't matters at all.

 

[mrelmo]

i don't see clogging as an issue when over filling, the problem that i had on over fills was cross contamination, which then lrequires flushing any cartridges that have been contaminated, hmmm but i quess you could run into the black pigment crossing over into the other cartridges

 

[Tudor]

By overfilling I understand completely filling the sponge to the point that it can't hold any more. Ink doesn't reach the vent. When the refill hole is plugged, vent opened and clip removed it will start dripping, but will stop when the sponge is in equilibrium. At this point it's safe to install and no cross-contamination will occur.

My question was: "Will the ink in the upper sponge dry out and prevent air from entering through the vent? How much time/refills would it take?"

When using dye ink, intuition tells me that the new ink will wash the dried ink when refilling. That is if ink dries between refills...

I think that pigment ink is more susceptible to drying, accumulating and blocking the sponge. I experienced this refilling PG-510. After a few refills the sponge in PG-510 would take less and less ink in, but after a purge it would go back to the original capacity.

 

[The Hat]

To be perfectly honest I havent seen any difference in how quickly the ink transfers from the reservoir side to the sponge side,
when refilling the only real difference is in the quantity.

Covering the air maze will limit the amount of ink going into the sponge area that is all,
air/ink will still exchange places at the bottom of the cart freely regardless.

Thats why I suggested only filling the reservoir to 75% when not covering the air maze,

If the air maze on the otherhand is covered the sponge stops absorbing ink when the pressure builds up above the sponge,
because the air above the sponge is now trapped and has nowhere to escape too.

 

[lin]

Hat I think you are misinterpreting or misreading what I mentioned in my posts:

Hat : "Covering the air maze will limit the amount of ink going into the sponge area that is all, .....

Thats why I suggested only filling the reservoir to 75% when not covering the air maze,"

Precisely, that is what said at post #7 that the vent or air inlet hole should NOT be covered so soon. Before Tudor edited the post, it depicts the clay over the vent/air inlet hole before starting refill. The reason why we cover the vent hole/air inlet hole AFTER the sponge had absorbed the refilled ink from ink chamber, is because by now the sponge would saturated/absorbed with about 3/4 of ink. And you want to stop the sponge from absorbing ink further to avoid oversaturating/overfill the sponge compartment by covering the vent/air inlet hole. At this point, you are stopping the air and ink exchange process for which the sponge to absorb further ink.

Hat: "If the air maze on the otherhand is covered the sponge stops absorbing ink when the pressure builds up above the sponge,
because the air above the sponge is now trapped and has nowhere to escape too."

Now let me ask you, where does air from the sponge chamber, goes to during air and ink exchange from the ink chamber as the sponge absorb the ink? The air from sponge chamber goes into the Ink Chamber via the grooves holes at the bottom of the cartridges. That's the ink chamber where you had a needle inserting into the refill hole to inject ink.

During the refilling process where the refill hole is open, with the storage clip sealing the exit port, "[Hat] If the air maze on the otherhand is covered the sponge stops absorbing ink when the pressure builds up above the sponge". Now ask yourself what kind of pressure are you building up or where or who or what is giving the pressure, or how does it build pressure, on it's own? If it's the refiller giving the pressure by keep refilling the ink chamber with ink, then shouldn't the refiller stop what ever he is doing. Ink that refiller keep injecting non stopand where "the air maze is covered and sponge stops absorbing", the ink at the ink chamber will backflow out to the top where the refill opening hole is. Why, because there is no other hole (giving that the air maze is covered) for the influx of ink to exit itself.

Now pls note that at the point of writing at post #7 and #9, the first post didn't include the picture of the bottle flushing and drying a cartridge. So I am not referring whether it's a purged cartridged or not. It's only subsequently Tudor update the first post to cover the flushing/drying of cartridge. But whether or not it's a used cartridge where the sponge is not too dry or a purged cartridge where sponge that is very dry, it's still the same. You must allow the air and ink exchange process to take place for the sponge to absorb the ink. During refilling (obviously the vent or air inlet hole is NOT cover up), when your sponge is absorbed partially with ink whether it's 75%, 80%, 85% etc whatever, THEREAFTER you cover up the vent hole/air inlet hole at that point when you want to stop the sponge chamber from further getting overly saturated/overfilled.

But what mrelmo had asked regarding first covering and THEN fill up and THEN remove the thumb and .... (Refer to his post #13 for details). This can be done as well. As at some point, you remove/release the finger/thumb/clay etc for the sponge to absorb to with ink as air from sponge compartment goes into the ink chamber.

 

[lin]

Hat: "Covering the air maze will limit the amount of ink going into the sponge area that is all,
air/ink will still exchange places at the bottom of the cart freely regardless."

Okay, let simulates,

Here is a cartridges that has been purge and dried for several months. Seal the vent/air inlet hole with hot glue (now ensuring no gaps on the hot glue over the vent hole) so that NO FURTHER air can enter the sponge chamber. So after sealing the vent hole with hot glue, there is still existing air in the sponge and chamber. As such, when one first inject ink this cartridge (where vent hole had been seal with hot glue), a certain amt of ink would enter into the sponge due to the existing air inside the sponge where it exchanges air with the ink from the ink chamber. But the sponge would only absorb until a certain level where it begin to stop absorbing and won't go further up. See Picture 1



Now let see with the " covering the air maze limit the amount of ink going into the sponge, " how much the "air/ink will still exchange places at the bottom of the cart freely". 1 hour gone, ink Not much movement. 3 hours gone, ink still not much movement 5 - 8 hours gone, ink still hasn't exchanges freely/ absorb up to the top sponge much.
Picture 2


Okay, after 8 hours gone, let us remove the hot glue that covers the vent/air inlet hole. And see what happened. The ink from the ink chamber where the refill hole has remained opened all the while, the ink from ink chamber would get absorbed by the sponge.
Picture 3