Changing Colors

[Harvey]

Ive been using HC inks, everything looked fine on a Canon IP4500, then I purchased the IP4600, the IP4700, and the MP620 I perceived the newer printers had a green cast even with OEM ink and with my refills using HC ink.

I agree with you the prints are great, but the color shift is a fact I cant deny, reading on several forums no one seemed to have found this changes in colors, they all were satisfied with quality with IP4600, IP4700, and the MP620.

All prints were made using Corel Draw X4, Photoshop CS4, and even the Canon PhotoPrint, same results.

 

[RMM]

My MX860/IP4700 did experience a bluish/greenish color cast with the hobbicolors inks. I've since created a profile that makes good output.

The 4 color CLI-8 printers seems to do much better than the CLI-221 printers do with Hobbicolors inks without a custom profile.

 

[Harvey]

I totally agree with you that CLI-8 does much better with HC, I have tested the ink with IP4500, IP4300, and the IP4200, but the green or blue cast is also present with Canon ink, it was a punch in the eye with the first print and a new IP4600.

I know a profile will correct the problem, but I dont have the equipment nor the ease of being in the US t ask for a custom profile.

 

[nche11]

As I said (believed) whenever a new Canon printer came out with a new set of ink you get different colors from a same picture printed in an older printer. This is like switching from one refill ink to another even the one you switched too is formulated to match the new Canon ink. Mikling just revealed having issues with Image Specialists CLI-221 cyan ink. I am not really too surprised.

Your best friend will be Photoshop or equivalent photo editor. If you have a green cast on your print you should tweak with the photo editor by increasing magenta a little. If you are familiar with Photoshop you know your can tweak the highlight, midtone or shadow individually. It is so easy to correct the color tint. These tweaking should be very minimum only. If it doesn't correct the color tint custom profiles probably won't either.

Someone asked before why Hobbicolors sticks to UW8 inks when CLI-221 came out. Mikling just gave the answer. The CLI-221 ink is not as good as CLI-8 ink. Hobbicolors UW8 ink is a CLI-8 compatible ink. The manufacturer probably found no reason to migrate to CLI-221 colors. But make no mistakes about it. Remember UW8 ink is not the same as real CLI-8 ink or CLI-221 ink. You will need Photoshop to fine tuning the colors if you want to match colors exactly. I have used many different inks from different sources. I am staying with UW8 ink. It has a very wide gamut. I am totally happy with it.

 

[Harvey]

I am also happy with HC. I just use the Canon Profile and it renders nice prints, vibrant colors and very good hues, I would dare to say I prefer it over the Canon OEM because of vivid colors, and of course it is waaay cheaper.

Photoshop offers color variations this could help to get better tint, and not dealing with the printer manual set, you could use hue/saturation setting also in PS.

 

[martin0reg]

@tin ho
This is a very informative thread.
The reason for different generations of ink and printers should be wider gamut / better color fidelity.

According to the labeling of IS, these inks changed
BCI to CLI8: magenta (second gen) and photo black (second gen)
CLI8 to CLI221: magenta (third gen) and text black (second gen) [edit] and cyan (second gen)

Supposed canon wants to make the colors better, the new printer driver and RIPs should get the most out of the new ink.
So the results could be different. They can be more "vibrant" or "brilliant" (wider gamut) - but they should be neutral, not so "canon warm".

As you have all three generations of printers, could you post a scan of a testprint to compare these three OEM inks and printers?
Or describe what are the main differencies?


PS: my list of changes differs from websnails. I once have copied it from the labels, don't know who is right.
Cyan and Yellow has the same IS number in all three generations, doesn't it?
PPS: now I see cyan may be a problem in the CLI221 models, it has indeed a new IS number for 221, but mikling might have a solution for us refillers..
..luckily I only have ip4000 and 4500...

 

[Tin Ho]

@tin ho
This is a very informative thread.
The reason for different generations of ink and printers should be wider gamut / better color fidelity.

I wish this had been the case. But the truth is it is not. CLI-8 ink remains to be the best ink. Canon's motivation of releasing CLI-221 and more new inks is beyond me. The newere inks are proven to be not better. I won't say they are bad but they are not better.

According to the labeling of IS, these inks changed
BCI to CLI8: magenta (second gen) and photo black (second gen)
CLI8 to CLI221: magenta (third gen) and text black (second gen)

This did clarify the change of the inks by Canon. However, IS's corresponding changes of ink is not great either. See Mikling's find. Change does not mean better every time.

Supposed canon wants to make the colors better, the new printer driver and RIPs should get the most out of the new ink.
So the results could be different. They can be more "vibrant" or "brilliant" (wider gamut) - but they should be neutral, not so "canon warm".

Sometimes change may be for good reasons. But don't assume their change is always for the benefit of customers. There are enough evidences that chnaging from CLI-8 to CLI-221 was for getting more profit. CLI-221 cartridges are much smaller than CLI-8s. And the ink seems to be not as good as the ink of CLI-8.

 

[Redbrickman]

"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine"

Sorry could't resist that.
Is there a difference between CLI-8 ink and CLI-521, or are they interchangeable?

Would help cut down on my consumables if that were the case, as I've just added an MP640 to my collection which includes a Pro 9000 MKII

 

[martin0reg]

...There are enough evidences that chnaging from CLI-8 to CLI-221 was for getting more profit. CLI-221 cartridges are much smaller than CLI-8s...

totally agree with that
..and with the change of cartridge they might have taken the opportunity to trouble the ink producers/refillers

But what about the "vivid magenta" in newer epson photo printers? Wider gamut - or trouble for the ink producers/refillers? For large format photo printers with big cartridges one can assume better color is the reason...

I have the feeling that the CLI models have a better skin tone than BCI, more neutral, less reddish and warm.
What about a test sample of your three canons for comparison?

 

[Tin Ho]

I won't and did not say all the changes of inks by printer companies were for giving trouble to 3rd party ink manufacturers. But Canon's past moves had been obvious just for that. The colors were not better and the cartridges were getting smaller and smaller. Then finally the cartridges are no longer transparent that makes it far more inconvenient for refilling.

As far as Epson and HP have you ever wonder why they released so many different printers with so many different ink cartridges? That had to be hassles for consumers who wanted to refill. That were also troubles for the 3rd party manufacturers to keep up. I am not familiar with the more vivid magenta in newer Epson printers. I would think it is a same game Canon played when it changed cyan ink when moved from CLI-9 to CLI-221. It turned out the newer cyan color was not accurate cyan. It amde all blue hues wrong. Do you actually have proof that the more vivid magenta is a result of wider gamut or just different gamut?

I don't think scans of my test prints will accurately resemble the colors from them. It could lead to wrong conclusions by posting the scans here unless the differences are very significant. All the prints look great but you can see differences still. Those differences are hard to describe because they are very small. If you have access to old, not so old and new printers you can see the differences yourself by printing a same photo on a same paper on those printers. Again keep in mind the difference is caused by a combination of printer, ink and profiles.

On the other hand the color differences can be huge between different brand of printers. There is a huge difference between Canon and Epson.