Bizarre ink 673 ink performance on L850 and L1800

[AmaDeuSbg]

Hello again,

Been around for quite some time wondering if to change the L1800 original 673 inks to the T54C inks. Because I nearly depleted the T673 inks in the printer I now decided to go for it and order the T54C inks but just before that I noticed something bizarre. Although the L1800 and L850 use the same 637 ink (L850 is like L800/L805 but with a scanner unit), the ink density especially on the black is different (worse on the L1800) when printed (for example on glossy paper no color correction applied on the same paper media). At first I was baffled and went to a local Epson dealer where we also tested this and strangely the machines there performed the same way.

This made me wonder if the driver for the L1800 mixes the inks for black in a different way compared to the L850 and thus even if I swap the inks with the T54C if it will be a better result and will be worth it or just to leave it and go for a new L8550

Any thought on this bizarre behavior on the inks on the two different printers is much appreciated, thank you!

Have a lovely day

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

Some color measurement of black patches - e.g. running a patch sheet for icc profile generation - would help very much; I'm not clear why inks would be mixed for black; I don't see a reason that inks get mixed to black since there is a dye black ink in the inkset.

 

[AmaDeuSbg]

Thank you, I will print both matte and glossy icc profile charts and tomorrow morning measure the lab values but visibly the black is much leaker on the L1800.

I do not now if the inks are mixed, I am just puzzled and trying to wrap my head around this - first thing that came to mind is either they are mixed and the mix ratio is different or the ink amount that the printer outputs is different on the L1800 vs L805/L850).

 

[AmaDeuSbg]

Hello again,

Just measured the test patches for black after 11 hours, on matte paper the difference is not so big but on the glossy it is visible:
Matte paper L*a*b* for L1800/L850
15,6 1,3 -3,6/16,2 1,3 -3,8

Premium glossy paper L*a*b* for L1800/L850
2,9 2,2 -4,2/3 2,9 -3,7

Do you think that values will improve with the T54C inks? those values are measured with Colormunki with the photo color picker

Thank you for your time

 

[Smile]

About inks and L800/L805/L8050/L18050
https://obzor-printer.ru/doc/obzor-l8050-and-l18050/

Translate to English. Ink mixing is related to problems Epson had with banding on L800 series.

 

[AmaDeuSbg]

Hello and thank you for posting this. This is a really interesting article, thank you - that explains the LM LC mixing I wonder if they also did some trick for the K and this is why it appears a different shade and performs differently (because in the article I did not see any comment about K being mixed from other colors but probably this is the case).

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

Please let me make some comments to the measured values; it's fine that you measured the complete Lab* values.
The b-value is negative in all cases with a value around -4 which let the black patches look like a cool black. That's typical for dye inks.

The L* value on the matte papers are 15.6 or 16.2 , I consider that typical for matte papers with some small variance; I don't think there is a more systematic reason behind it than measuring tolerances.

The L* values on the glossy papers are 2.9 or 3.0 , that's a rather good value for a black, and I don't assume here anything else than measuring variances.

Do you think that values will improve with the T54C inks? - no - not really .

 

[AmaDeuSbg]

Please let me make some comments to the measured values; it's fine that you measured the complete Lab* values.
The b-value is negative in all cases with a value around -4 which let the black patches look like a cool black. That's typical for dye inks.

The L* value on the matte papers are 15.6 or 16.2 , I consider that typical for matte papers with some small variance; I don't think there is a more systematic reason behind it than measuring tolerances.

The L* values on the glossy papers are 2.9 or 3.0 , that's a rather good value for a black, and I don't assume here anything else than measuring variances.

Do you think that values will improve with the T54C inks? - no - not really .

Thank you for your response.

Actually for each patch I measured it 5 times and wrote the middle values for each L*a*b.

Actually after the ink settled for more than a day I can barely see differences in the black patches - maybe it is more obvious when freshly printed, which leads me to believe (maybe) that I just like a more "warm" black as opposed to the cool black you mentioned. I am a newbie but according to the above values the L805/L850 is the warmer one, right? (or I am just going crazy? ). Isn't the deep black (which I am probably aiming unintentionally) supposidly be warmer hue?

Is there a way to "trick" the black in being warmer (more brownish?), I know it will deviate from the accuracy but I was just curious as I am probably not a big fan of the "cool black". I am curious - is this "cool black" only for dye , pigment black is "better"? I wish I was not a "self taught" on printing, probably those questions are covered in some literature/lessons :/

Thank you and have a lovely day

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

Dye inks fade - as well in the dark - and even for a longer time

https://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/fading-of-patch-sheets-in-the-dark.16099/post-142795

Pigment inks - you would have 2 types - one for glossy papers bringing you the gloss you would expect, and there is a pigment ink for matte papers; printers with pigment inks use either one of these black inks depending on the paper selection. Their tint is typically smaller than with a dye black ink. But it's always a matter how an ink performs together with a particular paper.
I'm not aware of a trick to change the tint of a black ink but maintaining the black level. But I'm sure there are papers with a particular black ink giving you the tint you want. But you only can find such ink+paper through testing - testing - testing - no data sheet would make it easier for you.