B&W on Canon Printers

[martin0reg]

hi pharmacist,
if you try this ihk you could report on combination with paper.
But you have only epson do you?

By the way I was in Ghent and Brgge this summer, beautiful cities...

 

[mikling]

You are probably experiencing something like a bronzing effect but with dye ink. I have seen that effect before when using color and it varies by paper. I don't know what is happening but I suspect it either has something to do with the nature of the coating or the ink load limit of the paper. I have only seen something like this on high gloss type papers.

Swellable papers are coated with something like gelatin which if you touch it with a moist hand will instantly dissolve and feel tacky. When the print is wet it is still soft and tacky. The ink droplets dissolves into this coating and then swells. If you look at the print when just printed you can see ridges on high contrast lines. When the print is properly dried, it shrinks back down and becomes smooth again. I suspect that because the ink does not dive into the paper and bleed as much, color control and linearity is superior. On color photos, this can be seen in better resolution of various tones especially in the shadows. With this type paper, the Pro9000 finally stretches its legs and shows what it can do. At the same time, these papers allow the CMYK models to positively print at a level unimagined.

The only downside to these is that they are generally more costly, and water will destroy prints instantly.

This gel coating also locks in the dye and I suppose seals it for much longer life as well.

With microporous papers, the reactions of the ink paper and coating appear to be more complex. That is possibly why even when the base white is similar on different papers, the color tones can be very different even when using identical inks.

On a particular model of Glossy paper, I end up getting a selenium look when using this inkset. Which particular model, I don't know as I was just given some of unknown origin.

 

[martin0reg]

Thank you for clearing this up, miklling.
I will try swellable if I see an offer.
Regarding the "color cast" depending on paper: a print on my favorite matte paper in "black only" with epson r285 shows a very slight greenish cast while a print with your ink set in ip4000 is more neutral, almost warm. But the more you compare the more it becomes relative .. to the other print or to other lighting ..

PS: after further comparisons ... the blacks on glossy looks deeper than on matte paper. Thats a little pity as matte is my favorite paper. But the resolution and overall look is so much better than epson black only.

 

[mikling]

If matte is your favorite then wait for my Eh-Boni suitable for the Claria based printers like the 285 and 1400. These are carbon based greyscale inks with superdeep blacks, they are innately warm as they are pure carbon and are ultra stable. For matte this is my choice for B&W. Reserve the dye for gloss and luster/pearl type papers. You can tint the dye inks BUT the tinting will be custom to the paper. A little color goes a long way.

The Eh-Boni Carbon line will also work on standard drivers using all nozzles down to the 1.5pl droplets. Still kind of a work in progress to linearise it better without resorting to QTR. That is my target amongst a whole lot of other things.

 

[Digital10d]

With microporous papers, the reactions of the ink paper and coating appear to be more complex. That is possibly why even when the base white is similar on different papers, the color tones can be very different even when using identical inks.

Thats exactly what I saw when trying the BW inks on different glossy papers that had similar base whites. The difference in tone was far more than I had expected. So far the Ilford Classic paper produces the most neutral B&W prints for my taste.

One quick question Mikling. Could the YMC inks from your set be used in IX4000 or is it not as simple as that ? The IX4000 has a similar specification to older A4 printers like IP4000 but without the black ink. How would YMC compare to KYMC. I do not own IX4000 but your inks are so good in my IP4700 that I'm tempted in buying one if I could get the same excellent results.

 

[mikling]

I am sorry but I have no access to an IX4000. My next avenue is the 6 color photo printer and then finally the 8 color Pro9000. Why? because they are all CLI-8 tanks. Conversion to B&W is easy on the Canon because just changing the tanks and rinsing the head under the sink and one or two head cleans is all that is required. No permanent changes are made.

My preference is also for the swellable papers because the neutrality is there. A few years ago, I also noticed that some Dollar Discount stores sold swellable letter sized paper that was from China. Kodak also made some as well but I can't recall the model. The only clues to swellable is the tackiness when touched with a moist hand and possibly the mention of long life prints and possibly the mention that it is only suitable for dye ink printers. Generally nothing is mentioned.

 

[ghwellsjr]

If I wanted to go to Staples or Office Depot or OfficeMax right now and buy some swellable paper, is there a brand and product number I could look for?

 

[mikling]

Ilford Galerie CLASSIC is likely the most widely available as every Ilford Dealer probably has it. The next current one is HP Premium Plus.
Contact me for Profiles for those for the complete Canon CLI-8 through to CLI-221 color profiles for those when using my inks. There still remains a Kodak product with those as well.

 

[martin0reg]

If matte is your favorite then wait for my Eh-Boni suitable for the Claria based printers like the 285 and 1400. ...

worse luck .. not the deepest black on matte, bronzing on my favorite glossy paper..

the ink set for canon is easy to use and inexpensive .. known carbon ink sets costs more than 100 usd.
And I would try your 6 tank set for my S9000, but my favorite A3 paper is matte too!

edit:
after purging with full grey color fields the bronzing on glossy is gone .. probably the ink was not pure enough, I have not flushed the cartridges sufficently..

 

[mikling]

Well I just finished testing the 6 shade variant quickly and it works well. Side by side with the CMYK near identical to my eyes.
To make LC use the C and mix with Y. 1 part C and three parts Y
Same for LM.

Looking at the output on Ilford Galerie Classic Pearl. It is beautiful, rich blacks and nice smooth tones.