Will pigmented ink (water based) work on uncoated PVC ?

[guymark]

Hi.

I have an Epson R285 and I am trying to find out if water based pigmented ink will print onto untreated PVC.

I tried searching on Google but for once found very little help.

I tried a search on here but the word "PVC" is too short a word for the system. PVC inkjet worked but didn't seem to generate results about pvc.

I have an ID card printer that works well but is not very good at true "edge to edge" printing - the Epson with a card tray DOES provide edge to edge printing but needs specially coated cards at around £1 each instead of around 7p for uncoated ones. Not an issue for the odd membership cards perhaps but makes printing lots of "giveaway" cards far too costly.

With dye based ink, a regular card just has the ink sit on top in a pretty puddle. I have heard conflicting ideas as to whether water based pigmented ink would work or not. Some folks seem to think pigmented ink will print on plastic (though slow to dry) and others seem to reckon that it cannot work.

Does anyone happen to know if pigmented ink would print a "plastic card" made of PVC - OR any way of pre-treating an ordinary card OTHER than simply buying specially coated ones at £1 each?

Would really appreciate an idea from someone who REALLY knows about pigmented inks or someone who has tried to print on PVC and knows first hand if it works, "kind of works" or simply doesn't work!

Kind regards

Mark

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

water and water based ink just runs off a PVC sheet if that is not coated. You either would need pretreated - coated sheets and cards or a solvent based ink, and another printer for that.
I'm not sure about your actual plans, you may consider inkjet coated plastic/vinyl sheets with an adhesive, PVC like stickers you attach to the base card. There are various types of label type materials available - a clear foil, as well printable from the backside and the glue on a separate carrier sheet, or white with back side adhesive , this is just one of many of such products
https://www.amazon.com/Avery-Full-S...419582&sr=8-2&keywords=plastic+inkjet+sticker

 

[guymark]

Thank you for quick reply and link.

This product would work out slightly cheaper than the pre-coated cards but then each card would have to be "hand trimmed" which again for perhaps 50 promotional (disposable) cards per week is going to take some time to do it properly.

In truth, I probably just need to accept that I just stick to the ID printer and that I cannot have edge-to-edge printing. I was just clinging to the hope that there might be a pigmented ink that would print on PVC and not wreck an Epson printhead.

The only other thing I have heard of, is a "spray" that can be applied to make almost anything printable (assuming it is thin enough) called inkAID but once again I have heard differing opinions on it. If I could lay out a batch of cards and just spray them with it, it might "do the trick".

I suppose I am just a little surprised that with inkjet printers being common place for some 25 years or more, that a more "print on anything" type of printer hasn't appeared yet - or at least not a popular project. With DVD,s CDs, etc I thought there would have been more of a market for at least one printer that would do it - but I guess not!

Thank you again for your reply. I will keep thinking of ways around my problem - and inkAID might just be worth a try as it is now available in the UK I think.

 

[The Hat]

@guymark, your best bet is dye ink, all dough pigment ink will adhere to the PVC, it wouldn’t be scratch resistant, I use self-adhesive Vinyl clear and opaque labels with pigment inks but always laminate them to make them weather proof and scratch resistant.

Inkjets have been around for a long time, but just like CD printing they too must be manufactured especially for inkjet use, there are several Epson printers that use oil or acrylic inks, but they are quite expensive to purchase, sorry...

HP do a line in Credit and ID card inkjet printers...

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

you can print on about anything - from eggs to truck tarpaulins - but not with water based inks you typically use to print on paper - there are acrylic inks, latex inks, UV curing inks , solvent inks and more all made for a particular application , in some cases with a pretreatment of the base material. I have read about this Inkaid, I don't know how well it works, it may be worth a try if you don't see other options.

 

[guymark]

@guymark, your best bet is dye ink, all dough pigment ink will adhere to the PVC, it wouldn’t be scratch resistant, I use self-adhesive Vinyl clear and opaque labels with pigment inks but always laminate them to make them weather proof and scratch resistant.

Inkjets have been around for a long time, but just like CD printing they too must be manufactured especially for inkjet use, there are several Epson printers that use oil or acrylic inks, but they are quite expensive to purchase, sorry...

HP do a line in Credit and ID card inkjet printers...

I will do more Googling - thank you. I did not know that HP did that - could be exactly what is needed.
I have already tried the dye ink though it was with water based and not solvent based dye ink. I know that a who range of ink markers mark the PVC very well and I was hoping that there would be a similar sort of ink that would work in an Epson printhead.

Thank you for your info and thoughts!

 

[guymark]

you can print on about anything - from eggs to truck tarpaulins - but not with water based inks you typically use to print on paper - there are acrylic inks, latex inks, UV curing inks , solvent inks and more all made for a particular application , in some cases with a pretreatment of the base material. I have read about this Inkaid, I don't know how well it works, it may be worth a try if you don't see other options.

Thank you for that. I am going to see if I can find out a little more about the HP card printer - might be EXACTLY what I am after. In the meantime, I have ordered a small bottle of inkAID to see if it is any good.

 

[guymark]

I just thought I would give some feedback with the inkaid as I purchased some to play around with. In short it does work - and if you are printing a fairly large bold area it seems to work VERY well once you get the application method sorted. Not unlike paint, it is easy enough to apply badly!

For printing small items and for items with any level of detail though, my experiences have been (mostly) less than ideal. I am sure this is down to my experience and lack of practice - and that with more effort, much better results could be obtained however I think anyone thinking this would be a "simple" way to print on difficult surfaces may want to allocate quite a LOT of time learning a new skill.

My best results (alas) where when I diluted the inkaid slightly more than they suggested and then doing several VERY fine spray coats. Brush attempts were great for bold large areas but didn't work well for detail as I struggled to eliminate brush marks even playing around with different bristle types.

I am keen to play around with their clear coat version as this (for my application at least) will be more forgiving of less than perfect spraying!

All in all, an interesting product with some great applications but DO expect to spend quite some time (unless you are naturally gifted with painting), learning how best to apply it.

 

[Edd]

Guymark, I was planning to do something similar with id cards. A quick search on Ebay (say inkjet id pvc cards) brings up a number of cards that the sellers claim can be printed on by inkjet. The cards do seem to be coated - some single sided, some double sided. The cost seems to be a lot cheaper than the £1 per card you mentioned. £15 per 100 from China.
If they work it will have solved your problem. If you are using them for promo cards you can probably get a much better price on larger quantities. Bear in mind that it will take some time to load the tray and print the cards (twice as much for double sided) and you may be better to get them screen printed by someone set up to do them (who can also print on coloured PVC).

You have rekindled an idea I had some time back for short runs of cards for promotional material and I will probably order some myself and will let you know how successful the printing is.

 

[guymark]

Hi Edd. That could be very interesting, I need to have another look on EBay myself I guess. The professionally printed option works for large amounts but even the "giveaway" ones were going to be time based and/or customised to a specific outlet.

On option I have been considering is getting standard cards printed with the bulk of the design, just leaving me to overprint the customised stuff on a proper ID card printer which I have handy. The only issue with using it exclusively is the cost of colour printing with dye sublimation ribbon AND the inability of the printer I have to do full bleed. Doing an "overprint" might be a practical way forward but I would be very interested to hear of your results with the inkjet coated cards - and the price you end up paying.

Since my original post I have ended up (on a very different project) purchasing an old HP Designjet 500 24" printer and although it is using dye for the colours, I have been speaking to a fellow who does convert them to UV curable ink - which I am led to believe will print on pretty much anything and everything. As I say a different project but certainly UV curing ink seems to have interesting possibilities.

Depending on what sort of card YOU are wanting to print and the amounts / colours etc, then if you would like to chat about PVC card printers I am very happy to do so. they can be bought from around £100 on EBay and when used with monochrome ribbons, each "print" works out at around 1p. With cards at about 7p, your cost for a full customised card is then around 10p - each being customisable. There are then also metallic ribbon options which although expensive at around £30 per ribbon, will do MUCH more than 1000 prints per ribbon if you only have one "block" of metallic ribbon on the card instead of having it all over the show.

As I say, if that might be of interest, pop me a line and I will help with information if I can.

Mark