Why? Nozzle check on iP4500 has 3 separate Cyan and Magenta rectangles

[l_d_allan]

Just curious ... on a nozzle check from my iP4500, there is the grid for the PGI-5Bk PigmentBlack, three rectangles for CLI-8C Cyan, three rectangles for CLI-8M Magenta, one for CLI-8Y Yellow, and one for CLI-8Bk Dye Black. Are there three separate rectangles for different picoliter sizes? Different nozzles for different sizes?

 

[pharmacist]

Do a search and you will find the reason for this... Many of your questions will be answered if you will execute the search command and will save you alot of typing/writing a question.

 

[Token]

While I also recommend using the search function, I will also answer your question.

Yes, your guesses were spot on. The different bands test the different nozzle groups, which are different sizes.

If i recall correctly, 20 picolitres for pigment black, 5, 2 and 1pl for cyan and magenta, 1 for black, and 5 for yellow. I cant remember these figures precisely- its been a while. For more accurate answers, yes, please use the search function.

 

[l_d_allan]

Token,
Thanks for the reply and your recollection of the picoliter values. An authoritative link would have been even better, but I appreciate you taking the time to share.

I did attempt to find the info with searches such as

* nozzle check evaluation

* Canon inkjet nozzle check evaluation

* pixma nozzle check evaluation

* cli-8 nozzle check evaluation

* iP4500 nozzle check evaluation (which turned up your post from May, 2009, but not the specific info I was looking for, plus the thread got hijacked past recognition)

However, I didn't find the specific info even from 100's of links (and reading 1000's of NS posts). I suppose my google skills are also deficient, along with my acknowledged refilling newbie'ness.

The point? Would my declogging diagnosis and "plan of attack" change if one of the rectangles was flawed, but not the others? On my iP4500 to which this thread applies, I suppose not ..... there is only one nozzle inlet that apparently branches out to different sized nozzles. But my impression is that I would still have to clean/declog as if all nozzle sizes for that color have problems, even if two of three nozzle check rectangles for Magenta or Cyan were fine.

Correct? Or reflect a flawed understanding of how an iP4500 works? Inquiring minds want to know

 

[ghwellsjr]

On a printer like the iP4500, there are two separate cleaning/purge/prime systems: one for the pigment black ink nozzles and one for all of the dye ink nozzles, so not only are all the cyan nozzles cleaned together, they are also cleaned with the magenta, the yellow and the dye black. The cleaning options in the maintenance tab on the printer driver will give you the option of cleaning just the pigment, just the dye or all nozzles.

On a printer like your Pro-9000-2 which does not have a pigment ink, the dye ink are divided into two groups. The maintenance tab will tell you which colors go with each group.

Canon's website says that the picoliter sizes for the iP4500 are 1, 2, and 5 which apply to the cyan and magenta. But the other ones are not specified. And I believe the pigment black is much larger.

 

[l_d_allan]

Canon's website says that the picoliter sizes for the iP4500 are 1, 2, and 5 which apply to the cyan and magenta.

Red-face here ... I'd been to that exact page before, but overlooked the specs. "If it had been a snake, it would have bit me." Not sure how I missed it ... thanks for your patient reply.

BTW, do you cringe or smile when I include the phrase,
> ghwellsjr, a.k.a. St. George the clog slayer

I'll discontinue if you prefer, but it's my way of expressing appreciation, and acknowledging your expertise and willingness to share it. Truth be told, many of my replies are summaries of what I've seen written by you, although I realize I don't always comprehend what you write all that well.

I appreciate when you "correct the error of my ways", as that is the way I learn the most, the fastest. It also seems to me that your correction of my misconceptions provides a "teachable moment" for others reading that thread, so I don't really mind being perceived as an uninformed semi-newbie.

 

[iP4XXX]

From the iP4500 service manual:

Pigment-based BK: 512 nozzles (30 pl), 600 dpi

Dye-based BK / Y: 512 nozzles for each color (5 pl), 1,200 dpi

Dye-based C / M: 512 x 2 nozzles for each color (5 pl), 2,400 dpi
512 x 2 nozzles for each color (2 pl), 2,400 dpi
512 x 2 nozzles for each color (1 pl), 2,400 dpi

 

[l_d_allan]

iP4xxx,
Thanks! That's almost exactly what I was asking. I'm still somewhat wondering why have both 2.0 pl and 1.0 pl if both can achieve 1200 dpi. Marketing?

To me, I would think there is more potential for clogs with 1 pl nozzles than 2 pl nozzles. Pehaps significantly more potential?

FNO (for nerds only):
Some math help pls?

If I understand how bubble based inkjets work:
Ink droplets are quickly boiled so they essentially explode out of the nozzle onto the paper.
Then I would think we aren't really talking about spherical drops, but films like a liquid balloon when they exit the nozzle.

To me, the tendency to clog would be inversely proportional to the square of the diameter of the nozzle, or an inverse square factor, all other things being equal (which they aren't due to surface tension issues, fluid dynamics, capilliary action, etc).

With a solid drop, a nozzle for a 1 pl drop would be an inverse cube factor smaller than 2 pl nozzle. So for purposes of discussion, if the nozzle for a 2 pl droplet was 100 units in diameter, a 1 pl droplet might need a nozzle diameter of 80 to 90 units or so. I'm really, really rusty in math.
1.x * 1.x * 1.x = 2.0. Solve for x?

However, since it isn't necessarily a solid drop that is being boiled onto the paper, but I believe a hollow film resembling a half-dome, then perhaps it becomes some kind of semi-complicated inverse square function. My speculation is that the nozzle diameter might to 70 to 80 units.
1.x * 1.x * (some constant pi factor) = 2.0. Solve for x and pi factor?

Part of my reason for asking in the OP was that I noticed my Pro 9000-2 has 2.0 pl ink droplets. And then I was surprised that the less expensive iP4500 was rated to have 1.0 pl ink droplets, even smaller. So I got to asking myself ... are 1.0 pl ink droplets necessarily better than 2.0 pl ink droplets?

Then I got to suspecting that ink droplet size was like megapixels in DSLR's and point-n-shoots ... eventually you realize that a 20+ mpx camera isn't necessarily better than a 12 mpx camera. It all depends?

 

[pharmacist]

The Pro 9000 does have an Light Magenta cartridge, which is absent in the IP4500. The Pro 9000 can only produce one droplet size per colour, that is 2 pl only. Therefore the Pro 9000 has the lighter LM and LC to make it a photo printer. And actually the Pro 9000 still produces finer prints, with better tonal transitions. So the size of the colour droplets says nothing. Actually my Epson Pro 3800 with even larger 3.5 pl droplets will blow away the prints made with the Canon Pro 9000.

The reason is that Epson can produce several droplet sizes per nozzle, because of the variable droplet size technology. It can produce 5 different droplet size per nozzle. The Canon needs a separate nozzle for each droplet size, because of the different printing technology. See post by IP4XXX.

 

[l_d_allan]

Pharmacist,

Thanks for the info. Makes me wonder about the Pro-9500-2's picoliter size. Webpage says "as small as 2.0 pl" which is a bit ambiguous. Actually, that "as small as" phrase reinforces my suspicion that pl specs have become as important to marketing as mpx to cameras.

Pretty much all I know about Epsom printers is how to spell the company name.

Actually my Epson Pro 3800 with even larger 3.5 pl droplets will blow away the prints made with the Canon Pro 9000.

But this OP got most of his question answered, so let the thread drift off into religious Canon vs Epsom noses. Whoops, meant opinions, which are like noses because .....

"The ball is in my court", so I'll start:
I'm sure you are convinced you get better prints with your 3880 than you got with your Canon(s), if any.

I'm sure you are convinced you get better prints with your expensive 3880 than I get from the 9000-2 that I paid a net of $50 for.

I'm sure you are convinced you get better prints using 12 per letter size A4 sheet that is fun to give away by the dozens.