Where did my ink go when refilling a virgin cartridge?

[stratman]

The Hat:

At your size, a barrel of whiskey is like a shot for you.

That is rodbam with the megaphone. I'm the one handing the syringe to you.

First thing you need to work on --- having your tailor make you something to wear other than that diaper.

 

[PeterBJ]

PenguinLust wrote:
And another problem is that I already sealed the top (I didn't use any hot glue, just the plug and Al tape that octosomething provided. How serious a mistake is that?) so the subsequent fillings will have to be done German.

You have made no serious mistakes, and you do not have to start using the German refill method, if you prefer the topfill method.

All you need to do is to top up your cartridges:

1) Seal the outlet with the orange clip held securely in place by rubber bands or use one of Octoinkjet's storage clips. 2) Seal the vent using a piece of PVC electricians tape or Octoinkjet's aluminium tape. 3) Peel away the aluminium tape covering the plug and pry out the plug using a wooden toothpick/cocktail stick. The low profile plug has a small center hole making this easier. Be careful not to pierce the plug. 4) Fill the ink chamber and plug it again and seal the plug by using a new piece of aluminium tape. 5) Check that the cartridge is not leaking, by removing the the vent seal and the outlet seal and place the cartridge on a shallow dish. A drop or two from the outlet is OK but the cartridge must not continue to drip/leak.

If this test is a pass, your cartridge is now ready for use.

The nominal capacity for PGI-x20 is 19 ml and for CLI-x21 9 ml. As you cannot completely empty the cartridges, 1-1.5 ml is left in the sponges. Fill amount will be around 17.5-18 ml for the large cartridge and 7.5-8 ml for the small cartridges.

I found out by weighing a set of new cartridges and some empty cartridges. The specific gravity of the ink is 1-1.1 so no big error is made by setting 1g = 1ml. Here are my weights:

ThrillaMozilla's method for topfill in post #4 is correct.

 

[rodbam]

Yes Hat that's me taking a swig of magenta ink, my favourite

 

[PenguinLust]

I'm more a fan of the German method. I only use topfill when the hole is already breached.
So I've got one telling me that that in addition to the 5mL I've already put in, I should put in another 10. On the other hand, I've been told that the sponges hold no more than 1.5mL, which doesn't seem very likely, since the none of the 5mL of ink I put in the magenta tank is there anymore. I'm not sure what I should do, but so far the most sensible advice I've gathered is that I should add another 10mL (in increments) using the German method.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

The sponge of the smaller cartridges hold about 6 mL or so, depending on the cartridge. The other chamber holds roughly the same amount. PeterBJ had about 1 to 1.4 mL left in the sponge after the cartridge was "empty", i.e. after if would not deliver much more ink. You can go ahead and fill the ink chamber, and I do mean fill it.

 

[PenguinLust]

Fill as in to the top? I was also told (a few months back) that it's better to err on the side of underfilling. I don't remember any explanation as to what the dangers of overfilling are, but that underfilling (at least by a little) was not dangerous.

 

[The Hat]

Fill as in to the top? I was also told (a few months back) that it's better to err on the side of underfilling. I don't remember any explanation as to what the dangers of overfilling are, but that underfilling (at least by a little) was not dangerous.

I was the one who suggested you fill your cartridge with another 10 ml. of ink
but on reflection as you are using the 225 (small) cartridge 6 ml will be more than enough.

It is much more prudent to under fill then to over fill (Causing ink Starvation) not to mention safer
and you can rely on the printer to tell you when your cartridge is running low on ink anyway..

 

[PeterBJ]

I made the table to get an idea how much ink I would need to draw into a syringe to make a German refill. I don't like the idea of pouring something back into a bottle, because of the risk of contaminating the rest of the ink. I would rather empty the unused ink down into the sink. To minimize this loss I made the table.

So to refill a CLI- x21 cartridge that has been used until empty, but not flushed 8.5-9 ml of ink will be sufficient. If the cartridge has been flushed and dried 9.5-10 ml will be needed. This way you will have enough ink in the syringe and loss will be minimal.

I made a test using a CLI-521Y cartridge that I had flushed with the plastic ball removed. After drying I top filled it as described by ThrillaMozilla in post #4. After refill the cartridge weight was 20.5 g, only slightly more than normal, and no ink was blocking the vent. That's why I concluded the method was OK.

Today I did one more test. Using a 10 ml syringe I emptied the ink chamber. 3 ml of ink was in the chamber. So the rest of the ink used was in the sponges. This means that the sponges in a properly filled CLI-x21 cartridge holds about 6ml and the ink chamber about 3 ml. IIRC The Hat asked me to do this test in another thread some time ago, to determine the volume of the ink chamber. Well, at last I remembered.

After your cartridge is flushed and dried you can 1) topfill and seal the cartridge, or 2) seal the cartridge and use the German method to refill the cartridge. For German refill I recommend this tutorial by pharmacist: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=26249#p26249

So filling 5 ml of ink into a flushed and dried CLI-x21 cartridge is barely enough to fill the sponges, that's why all the ink disappeared into the sponges. You will need to add about 4 ml more of ink.

BTW where did you find the instructions telling to fill in only 5 ml of ink? It looks to me as if they are intended for another type of cartridge, maybe HP 364 non-XL?

 

[gigigogu]

Consider the following scenarios - refill with German method when:
- the printer monitor shows low ink warning - 4 ml
- the printer monitor shows empty cartridge warning - 5-6 ml
- the printer monitor shows "ink level cannot be determined" or something like this - another 1 ml
If refilled by top filling without covering the air vent, another 1-2 ml goes in upper sponge.
If the cartridge was completely dried, after purge or storage, another 1-2 ml.
In conclusion the refill volume can be any of these values, depending on method and cartridge state.

 

[PenguinLust]

BTW where did you find the instructions telling to fill in only 5 ml of ink? It looks to me as if they are intended for another type of cartridge, maybe HP 364 non-XL?

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=7483

Ok, so it seems we are arriving at consensus: I should put another 4-5mL in (on top of the 5mL already in there).

So, I'm curious as to what's wrong by overfilling by a small amount.