What 3rd Party Ink?

[mccoady]

Okay thanks you've pretty much explained everything. It seems if a person wants to stick with prefilled cartridges then the way to go is to buy Pro Colors from alotofthings since it has been suggested that they are using Formulabs ink. If a person wants to use bulk ink then the way to go is to buy the HobbiColors kit because the ink is good plus you get easy refillable cartridges (although Pro Colors bulk ink would also be fine). The main difference would be the slightly higher priced prefilled Pro Colors cartridges (and no mess) although still much cheaper than OEM cartridges I have been buying.

One question of mine was not answered above concerning if third party cartridges work the same as OEM with the Canons. On my ip5000 you get a low ink warning which I ignore and then when it says the ink cartridge is completely out I immediately replace it. I assume you can do the same with 3rd party cartridges whether prefilled or bulk filled? If I went the bulk route then I would want to buy an extra set of cartridges and have them filled and ready to go, I really wouldn't want to keep topping off the installed cartridges everytime I got a low ink warning.

 

[klubber]

I have received the pro color cartridges and quickly printed a 5x7 photo on Ilford Galerie Professional Smooth Gloss Paper.

I have not done a lot of checking, but the initial impression is that the picture stands alone as a very acceptable photo. I printed with a brand new ip4000 that had never been used. I will print the same picture with my i860 with Canon originals to see how much of a difference there is. I have to say though that the Pro Color is a picture I would be satisfied with. I will post a picture of the box.

 

[fotofreek]

mccoady - Refilling canon carts seems to work best for most people when they refill while the ink chamber has at least 20% of the ink remaining in it. That is before the low warning comes up when that chamber is empty. Ink can dry in the sponge and other areas when you run the cart to empty and possibly when you get the low ink warning as well. You will get more refills if you follow this approach. Alternatively, Granddad has a technique for backflushing the carts periodically. It is on a thread in this forum. Once you set up the simple device for flushing the carts it is quick and simple. Then, when a cart doesn't feed well after several refills you rejuvinate it and it will then work like new again.

 

[hpnetserver]

McCoady, your strategy of printing to the last drop of ink after getting the first low ink warning is a dangerous one. For OEM cartridges it is understandable that you want to get to the last drop of ink. But if you refill you should refill immediately after getting the warning. Do you know that if your ink cartridge is already out of ink and you click "print" anyway you may cause the printhead to burn out? The ink has the effect of providing cooling to the heater in the printhead. Without the coolant the heater could overheat and burn out quickly. It's really an advantage of refilling with 3rd party supply. You won't need to try to use the last drop of ink hence reducing the risk of damaging your printhead. For the same reason you want to make sure your 3rd party cartridges are working flawlessly in terms of supplying ink to the printhead. This is a good reason to avoid unkbnown quality 3rd party prefilled cartridges. They may be very cheap. But if there is a questionable quality issue in them you could lose your printhead. I noticed that most 3rd party suppliers of refill kits strongly recommend that you refill even before ink tanks become completely empty. If you do get a 3rd party product for your printer, you should adopt a practice to print a nozzle test pattern eavryday before you print anything else. This tells you if your tanks are going to be fine for your following prints. Untill you are fully confidenrt in the 3 party product then you can decide if you still need to print the test pattern. I have completely stopped doing that. I have gained full confidence in Hobbicolors refill kit on my ip8500. I do let my tanks go down to near empty. I will refill before any warning though. But sometimes I did get warnings because I did not always check the tanks. But once I get the warning I will refill as quick as possible. The printhead of my ip8500 is very expensive. Losing it means losing the printer.

Don't be in a hurry to buy any profile tools. I don't and I probably will not. I don't find a need for it. It's a hassle. I feel completely comfortable from the colors of my photos. In other words if green is geen, blue is blue I feel just fine. When I used the IMS refill ink from Costco my trees were printed brown. That's very wrong and there is no way I would be willing to use it even it can be corrected by using a profile. I did find that IMS ink never said it is compatible with BCI-6 PC and PM colors. So it was a mistake to use it for BCI-6 system I believe.

Talking about having extra set of cartridges, it gives you the convenience of replacing emptied ones instantly and go. You won't have to stop, refill and go. But you do need to refill empty ones later on. You won't save time but you can arrange the time for refilling. That's the reason I bought my 2nd but identical refill kit. I probably will buy a 3rd kit still. I don't use that much of ink but I like to have many cartridges, the more the better.

 

[mccoady]

I actually always thought it was acceptable to wait until OEM cartridges ran completely out as long as you changed them immediately, I thought you could trust the printer to alert you before any damage was done. I figured the low ink warning was merely for manufacturers to make you change the cartridges early thus buying more ink from them.

If I used HobbiColors ink would it really be necessary to run a nozzle check everyday? Also I probably wouldn't replace the cartridges until I first got a low ink warning with HobbiColors carts unless I absolutely had to. This whole idea of using bulk ink has to be something where I didn't have to do this or that everyday or it just wouldn't be for me.

On average how many times could you refill one of the HobbiColors carts with their ink before you would have to clean or replace?

After reading HobbiColors instructions I first thought you just put so many cc's of ink into a cartridge and that's how you knew how much to put into it but it now seems you have to go by how full the cartridge looks in each compartment. And I guess that makes sense because you wouldn't always be starting with a virgin cart. This may be alot easier than I think but for one who has never tried it, it sounds a little daunting to get the right amount ink in the cart without making a mess. Maybe I'm worried over nothing.

 

[fotofreek]

mccoady - echoing hpnetserver, you don't want the carts to go bone dry unless you want to buy another print head. If you haven't refilled before it can look a bit daunting. Rest assured that it is easy with Canon bci-6 and bci-3 carts and the mess is easily contained.
These carts have a chamber that is an ink reservoir and another filled with sponge material that dispenses the ink in a controlled manner. When the reservoir is empty the low ink warning comes on (triggered by an led shining through the prism at the bottom of the reservoir) but there is still ink in the sponge. The printer then does a crude countdown and gives you the empty warning. At this point there is still some ink in the sponge and you could probably squeeze a few more prints out, but at the risk of ruining the print head.
These are different issues from the question about refilling before the RESERVOIR side is completely empty. You could print until you get the empty signal, but the cart will support more refills if you refill before the reservoir side is more than 80% empty.
All the carts don't go empty at the same time. Some people interupt thier printing routine, refill the low cart, and immediately replace it. Once you catch on to the routine of refilling, this can be done quickly. You don't want to leave the printhead with a cart out for very long as the ink will dry in the intake and clog. Others, myself included, have one or more backup sets already filled. When a cart is 80% low some people replace that one cart and put the near empty one aside for refilling later. Others change out the whole set when one becomes 80% low.
When you remove a cart and keep it stored before refilling you need to seal the outlet to prevent it from drying out and you should put some tape over the air vent on top to prevent evaporation. You can also put them in a refrigerator carton with a sealed top and a damp paper towel.
When using good quality carts you have refilled yourself you don't need to print a nozzle pattern each day. hpnetserver suggested that for prefilled carts of questionable quality. You do have to print frequently with any ink, OEM included, to avoid clogs. If I haven't used my printer for several days I will sometimes run the nozzle check and/or a cleaning cycle. The ink costs so little that you will not worry about the wasted ink for either of these procedures.
The amount of ink is a "no-brainer" with Canon carts. They are clear, and you just put enough ink into the reservoir area to almost fill it - with a bit of air space at the top to avoid any leakage at the air vent in the sponge area. No need to measure. Just eyeball it. Wear cheap medical exam gloves, work over a surface that will not be harmed by a few drops of ink (I use a wide plastic storage box in which I place the ink containers, carts, syringes, etc - or I work in a sink), and wash the syringes and work surface afterward with plain water. Any stains will come off a hard surface or your hands with plain bleach.

 

[klubber]

Fotofreak,

Instead of pure bleach to clean up hrd surfaces, might I suggest Soft-Scrub with bleach. Works great, but not as aggressive or hazardous.

 

[Nifty]

I agree! In the past I used straight bleach, and while it took the ink right off, I ended up smelling like bleach for HOURS no matter how flowery of soap I used afterwards!

 

[mccoady]

Sounds like one needs to buy one extra set of carts (maybe even two) so you would have a replacement ready to go. Do you use just one syringe or do you have extra syringes for each color? If you decided to not fill a cart right away that you took out of the printer (and replaced with a full one) would using some of the clips I've seen links for be an acceptable way to store them? And as far as that goes would they be a good way to store carts that you've refilled until you're ready to use them?

 

[hpnetserver]

McCoady, you get to use almost the entire bottle of ink you get from the refill kit except the ink wasted by the printer's cleaning cycles. If you use OEM or prefilled cartridges you will use only 2 3rds of the ink in a cartridge. so the amount of ink used in a nozzle check is really nothing. The real cost is the paper used and time. In fact you can do 4 nozzle check by using only one sheet of paper. Each side of the paper can be used twice. So the nozzle check is really a good insurance you give your printer for a long life. I stopped doing it because I never found any problem. I really should continue to do it. It's a good thing to occasionally flip open the printer lid to check ink level of cartridges visually. If any of them is low replace them before the printer warns. But if somehow your printer warns before you check just replace it ASAP. This is also a good insurance for the printer's long life. If you get to use the entire bottle of ink you really don't need to care about how many refills you will get from the bottle. This makes using bulk ink more economical. I paid $380 for my ip8500. I may not spend more than that on the ink before my printer dies. That makes the ink really cheap to me. Based on past year of using the refill kit from Hobbicolors I expect to be free of problems until the printer dies of age rather than dies from problems. I'll keep my fingers crossed.