Tiny-wee little spring

[paullowry]

Hi I just joined; sorry I didn’t make proper introductions. I’m calling from the operating theater. I have my 3800 open on the table and thought with the combined experiences of the master printers on this forum someone might be able to provide guidance as to whether I should perform major organ replacement or call the morgue.

The one thing I would have mentioned about myself in a introduction is that I’m not a tech guy, “not mechanically inclined” would be an understatement, but here I am elbow deep in this machine. I am using the service manual and videos by Serhat Abaci and José Rodriguez to guide me.

Here is (as succinctly as possible) the history of this situation.

In March I started printing more intensively than usual and for the first time ever began to experience problems. Quite suddenly (possibly after a black ink change MK to PK), the printer stopped printing black. All maximum black areas were paper white. I power cleaned and sent through another print which emerged with a large thick band of dripping black ink along the right-hand side (facing the printer) as well as a bit of ink at the top left side (see attached photo)

I checked the PK cartridge it was completely empty (I hadn’t received any warnings from the printer so it may have just leaked out.

I replaced the PK cartridge and power cleaned and low and behold the printer worked! The Nozzles were clear and so I continued printing without issue for a couple of days after that.

Now here is where I install a Jon Cone K7 ink set (this is why I’m suddenly printing so intensely on this printer I’m using up OEM ink before conversion.)

I had executed two of the three power cleanings recommended after initial installation without issue and just before the last I decided to manually clean the printer as per instructions by inkjet mall. I ran Q tips along the edges of the capping station and wiper and ran the print head over towels dampened with cleaning fluid. Immediately afterwards I ran the third power clean, the machine screeched out a crunching noise, and knocked the capping station out of place (like a cuckoo off its springs).

I repositioned the capping station and sent a test print. It emerged completely blank (it was a greyscale image) Afterwards I sent the QTR calibration target and it showed complete blockage of most channels, only yellow seemed to be getting through PK, MK, LK and C showed a faint impression with severe vertical banding. All attempts to clean produce a cleaning error.

So back to the operating table: I followed Serhat’s instructions for flushing-in and retracting out cleaning fluid into the print head, it seems to me the print head is fine, there was no ink in the syringe. I cleaned the edges of the capping station it was covered with black ink again as were both sides of the wiper (gobs of black ink) In one of Rodriguez videos he indicates this could prevent a proper seal during capping. I am not quite sure what to look for to ascertain whether or not the damper housing has been damaged.

But here’s the thing, I found a tiny wee little spring about half-inch long, just lying on the cleaning assembly. I can’t be sure where it’s from so I can’t be certain which part to replace, if any.

Does this long and laborious description of events indicate to anyone what might be the source problem and if it might be repairable? Is it more likely that there are multiple problems?

Can anyone guess where this little spring goes?

Any help with this would greatly appreciated and if you have ventured to the end of this long post thank you for your time and patience.


Paul

 

[W. Fisher]

I have the 3800's 2nd cousin, the 3880.

Somewhere in the past I had the entire thing tore apart and saw that spring. I believe it is one of many around the print head and carriage assembly. The print head portion (that the print head proper is screwed into with three screws) sort of floats inside the outer carriage and is held there by a lot of little springs. I had a bad head strike on the side of a roll of paper that curled up on the sides and the print head hit it and pushed the paper sideways a bit and wadded it up too. Printing was a mess after that as it damaged a plastic tab I also found in the carriage part.

I found the online service manual and tore into it and found the print head part had some tabs that slid up and down in the outer carriage part. One tab broke off (above) so the print head was never parallel to the paper and was sort of dragged across the paper and left streaks at times. I had to do some plastic surgery and got it back together along with all the little springs. Took me about 2-3 days too as the way they built it, it seems the head was the first thing in and then they built up around it. Took lots of notes and photos which helped. It worked afterwards, aside a lot of ink priming to get it to flow again, and still is fine and still printing a couple of years later.

Fwiw, I later found I could buy the carriage and print head carrier assembly on ebay for about $80.

 

[paullowry]

Hello W. Fisher

Thanks for your answer. I’ve just arrived out of surgery and things are worse. At present prints are absolutely blank, there isn’t a single drop of ink reaching the paper. Can you say more about what you mean by “lots of ink priming to get it to flow again?” Do you mean priming the ink cartridges? I’ve run power cleans and executed black ink changes since I put the printer back together, which appear to run, but the capping station and under the print head are still completely dry , I have a feeling no ink is drawing through the system.

Did you have to re-prime the cartridges to get the ink to flow again?

Paul

 

[W. Fisher]

After I put the thing back together I had to waste a lot of ink priming it. The pump is on the left side and it does all the air pumping into the carts, but getting it too the head takes a lot more ink than I thought by just doing power cleanings, let it sit for a while, and try again. Might have been 3-4 power cleans before the ink got back to the head after putting it back together again.o take it apart you take off the hose manifold, print head, carrier, carriage etc. The springs were all over the carriage area. Some you can see in the top clear cover over the head, the rest are under and around it all.

I remember the underside of the print head on mine had a lot of hair and fibers from paper stuck to it and wedged into some chrome ring that holds the head. Took tweezers to pull them all out. They might be responsible for spots on the edges at times.

I never understood the capping station fully. I know the rubber around it is to seal against the head to keep the ink moist. The pads hold ink that go to some hoses underneath to some motor and pump unit. That unit also slides the rubber wiper over the print head too. A lot of ink sits in that line from the pads to motor to the exit over the maintenance cart. I think the pump under the pad line stays full which also keeps the pads from drying out.

I usually flood those pads with head cleaner made for Epson until they are white again. Then let the head park on it overnight. Sometimes it gets the ink squirting again, but it takes time for the solvent to soften the crud under and in the head. I bought a couple of pints of Epson cleaner (Blue color) out of some ink supplier in Oregon for about $30.

If no ink is flowing and it sounds like the pump is turning on and off every few minutes, then the dampeners (sponges) on top of the head where the ink lines go into could be plugged solid too if colors are affected. The two blacks are sometimes blocked by that PK/MK Black ink valve. Sometimes the seal between the head and the dampeners leaks, but its a mess when it does.

Good luck chasing it down. Disassembly of the entire thing takes hours or days if you've never been into one.

 

[PeterBJ]

@paullowry If you don't already have it, then this post has a link to downloading a service manual with parts catalog. It might be helpful in servicing your printer.

 

[paullowry]

Ok, thank you, I got the catalogue. Do we order these parts from Epson or do we have to order them from China?

 

[bobjoek]

I doubt if Epson will sell you repair parts. Another source for Epson parts, is compassmicro dot com. What you may need is the pump, cap assembly w/wiper @ $62.10. From your description, it appears that the cap assembly is not making proper contact with the printer head. Epson provides this as a complete assembly. If you have the service manual and are mechanically inclined, this assembly can be easily replaced. The service manual provides step by step instructions, with illustrations. You may be able to get a Chinese assembly through eBay cheaper, but the quality may be an unknown.

However, you may have a more serious problem. You mentioned dripping black ink, with your PK cartridge running dry. This usually indicates a defective PK/MK switch in your printer head. This is a frequent problem with older 3800 and 3880 printers. Unfortunately, this is not an individually replaceable part, and to resolve, the entire ink system assembly (ink cartridge bay, ink lines, PK/MK switch and dampers) has to be replaced as a unit. This is a major job, both difficulty and expense. Checking with Compass Micro, I discovered that this assembly is no longer available (but you may be able to get a Chinese knockoff). Your alternative may be to use your 3800 printer only for matte printing.

It may be cheaper in the long range to buy a new printer.

Sorry to bring bad news.

Bob

 

[paullowry]

Bob

Yes this explains everything! I do not believe in coincidences, two major problems arising suddenly after 10 years of perfect health. Your explanation makes sense. My printer’s PK/MK switch failed, PK ink leaked out, I replaced the cartridge, power cleaned and continued. Then, as an extra precaution before installing the K7 set, I manually cleaned the capping station and broke it, probably while I was struggling (without the cover off) to re-position it on its catches.

With a new cleaning station I should return to only having a PK/MK switch problem which if I have understood correctly I can fix by replacing the damper housing above the print head. I found this part at Compassmicro it’s a special order for 172 dollars (which I assume is Canadian since the plant is in Vancouver). (https://compassmicro.com/ink-system-assembly-for-epson-stylus-pro-3880.html).

I am not seeing used 3800 on Ebay for less and I’m thinking my 3800 will be refurbished, good to go for a few more years, whereas I could be buying a used 3800 whose PK/ MK switch is about to pop. Even if I decided to pay a service technician to install it (which would be smart I think given my capping station cleaning experience) it would probably be the cheapest most certain path that leads me to a K7 printer.

On the other hand this tiny wee little screw that W. Fisher believes comes from the print head still haunts me. It is possible the print head is damaged. But I am willing to bet 62 dollars on this printer. Once the capping seal is made again and ink begins to flow then I can check to see if I need to replace the print head.

Thanks to all for your help

Paul

 

[W. Fisher]

There is a old post on Luminous Landscapes where someone took a 3880 apart and speaks of springs and issues with taking it apart and putting it back together again and priming it. There might be photos on it too, but I'm not a member so I cannot see them. Sounds like his was dragging the print head across the paper and cutting it too, maybe the loose internal head carrier part like mine had. Mine was making a mess of ink on the sides like your photo shows. It was all gummy under there and print fibers stuck in it too.

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=94378.msg770983#msg770983

W.F.

 

[bobjoek]

Paul,

If you go the full route of replacing the pump/cap assembly and the ink system assembly, your cost will be $234 (US$) for parts, plus approximately $125 (US$) for ink and a maintenance cart expended.
Replacing the pump/cap assembly is not very difficult, but the ink system assembly is another story. This requires that you have the service manual (not just the exploded parts diagram) and the Epson Adjustment program for your 3800, to perform an initial fill and other adjustments needed after replacing the ink system assembly. I have successfully done this on my 3880 and can assure you that this is a major project. Plus you have a concern that the printer head may be damaged. A replacement printer head will cost around $450. If you have to replace the printer head, you will have sunk $809 (US$) into a very old printer. This is close to the cost of an Epson P800, when Epson is offering rebates.

On the other hand, you may try an incremental approach, by just replacing the pump/cap assembly. Your cost will be $62 (US$), and you may find out that the printer head is OK and your printer will function for matte printing only. You will need the service manual for the 3800, but will not have the cost of an initial ink fill. This is much simpler than replacing the ink system assembly.

This is a difficult decision and I wish you the best.

Bob