Soon: big test of refillable Epson Pro 3800 cartridges + resetters

[cwphoto]

Hi cwphoto,

Thanks for confirming my suspicion that the gloss is similar, because on my system I am still using Image Specialists IM-K4 (large stock, which need to be consumed first) and only the LM and PBK is using Inkrepublic.com's IRK4-nano ink. Can you tell me about the colour balance: it is muted compared to the Epson K3 ink or more vivid ? In what sense ? The gloss seems to be better than my IM-K4 ink, especially the black, which is even blacker and glossier than my IM-K4 ink and also a bit more blacker than the Epson K3 photo black.

Did you receive the right types of vivid magenta and vivid light magenta for your system, since you have an Epson Pro 3880 ?

About individual resetting: no forget this, as all carts will be reset to full, so you have to keep an eye about the real ink level, but since the carts are semi-transparant, this is not very difficult. Refill accordingly and do not rely on the ink level by the driver or your printer display. I think this is a disadvantage of this system, but the built quality and ease of refill compensates this more than enough to me.

pharmacist:

Just completed about 80 images, black and white, using primarily the LLK, PK, and VLM, all ink Republic ink. I can definitely see a metallic look to the prints, so apparently ink Republic has NOT been able to successfully duplicate the quality of the K3 inkset of Epson. So, I'm disappointed. The inks are instant dry, and color is just a tad warmer using LLK. Absolutely no problems with the CIS, particularly after pre-priming the carts as you suggested. I'm just disappointed in the quality of the gloss. Color gamut DOES appear similar.

I may take a closer look through a gamut viewer like Colorthink when I have some downtime. Just wanted to update my previous comments on the gloss.

Troy

 

[pharmacist]

Hi Troy,

thanks for your feedback. I am still using Image Specialists and for the colours the gloss seems to be identical to the Epson K3 ink, accept the for the photo black: it causes a very visible matty mute on the gloss where it is sprayed on.

For your LLK war problem: I do not think this is caused by the LLK but by the PM, which is used during the ABW-printing mode, or it could be that they use pure carbon particles to produce the black inks. Carbon ink is the most fade resistant ink, but it has the disadvantage of having a warm glow. You can tweak the print to make it a bit cooler to compensate for the warm glow: the ABW-driver can put a small amount of LC ink to compensate for this.

Your metallic look is called gloss bronzing, but I do not think there is a aftermarket ink that rivals and exceed the original K3 ink, so you have live with it or you could buy the larger 220 ml's cartridges, pump out the ink and inject them into these cartridges. The colour output can be tweaked with a custom profile, so this can be dealt with. The physical characteristics for the gloss of a particular ink however can not be changed. One could tweak the white point a bit (not 255, but let's say 250), so a small amount of LLK is sprayed over the entire picture, epsecially in the non printed area. This will effectively reduce the amount of bronzing or metallic look.

Therefore I now prefer satin an pearl type of papers to minimize the "metallic look" or gloss differential of my prints.

Nice to hear the cartridges work very well, especially after pre-priming the cartridges.

 

[cwphoto]

Hi Troy,

thanks for your feedback. I am still using Image Specialists and for the colours the gloss seems to be identical to the Epson K3 ink, accept the for the photo black: it causes a very visible matty mute on the gloss where it is sprayed on.

For your LLK war problem: I do not think this is caused by the LLK but by the PM, which is used during the ABW-printing mode, or it could be that they use pure carbon particles to produce the black inks. Carbon ink is the most fade resistant ink, but it has the disadvantage of having a warm glow. You can tweak the print to make it a bit cooler to compensate for the warm glow: the ABW-driver can put a small amount of LC ink to compensate for this.

Your metallic look is called gloss bronzing, but I do not think there is a aftermarket ink that rivals and exceed the original K3 ink, so you have live with it or you could buy the larger 220 ml's cartridges, pump out the ink and inject them into these cartridges. The colour output can be tweaked with a custom profile, so this can be dealt with. The physical characteristics for the gloss of a particular ink however can not be changed. One could tweak the white point a bit (not 255, but let's say 250), so a small amount of LLK is sprayed over the entire picture, epsecially in the non printed area. This will effectively reduce the amount of bronzing or metallic look.

Therefore I now prefer satin an pearl type of papers to minimize the "metallic look" or gloss differential of my prints.

Nice to hear the cartridges work very well, especially after pre-priming the cartridges.

I actually purchased the HP Z3100 to get away from the gloss differential and HP's gloss optimizer works extremely well. I also briefly tried the Epson R1900 and its gloss Optimizer is a little bit shinier, but could never solve an overall cyan cast to the prints, and the machine is really a hobbyist printer anyway. I think the 3880 is far more robust.

During this run of 80 prints, I had the Epson LLK ink loaded with the InkRepublic vivid magenta and the gloss was still pretty good, actually very good. It wasn't until I loaded up the LLK, that I really noticed a difference within about four prints. I have purposely shifted the color towards the warm tones to match the original prints I am duplicating, and also brought the highlights down about three points. I believe the Epson driver allows you to do this as well. Interestingly, Canon modified their black inks in their 5100 printer to improve gloss, so I think there's a lot of truth to what you say about the composition of the black ink. I owned the IPF5000 printer for a number of years and it certainly suffered from the gloss differential problem. If I can pinpoint which ink is causing the most problem, I may be able to mix and match. So far, the LLK seems to be the biggest problem. I guess I can produce some solid patches of each and compare the gloss. It can be really tough trying to pinpoint the source of the problem. Overall, InkRepublic still has a pretty decent inkset, but it would not hurt my feelings if they could get closer to Epson's K3. Price is very good and I like the service. Maybe you can mix and match to solve your problem as well?

Troy

 

[pharmacist]

Hi Troy,

Nice to hear the overall performance of the Inkrepublic IRK4-nano pigment ink is very good indeed, just what I was suspecting, since I only have the LM and the PK refilled with this ink and the other carts with Image Specialists K4 ink and I already noticed the improved gloss differential with these two inks installed compared to the previous IM-K4 LM and PK.

About the LLK ink not being optimal: I think we should live with it, until Inkrepublic will introduce a better ink. Since my B/W-prints are almost entirely on semimatte and satin papers I do not think this will be a problem for me. For me B/W-prints should be on done less glossy papers, even matte types of paper. Glossy papers are better for colour prints and I think with the IRK4-nano colours this will not cause a problem with an annoying amount of bronzing, since you have stated and confirmed the gloss is very good indeed for the coloured inks.

I can second your experience with the service at Inkrepublic.com: very helpfull and friendly. But about mixing the ink: it would be too much work and tweaking with the ABW-driver will be easier to compensate for the warm glow.

Two years ago I was desperate looking for a refillable solution for my Epson Pro 3800, which was the first compact prosumer/semi-professional A2 printer at an affordable price and after having contacted several manufacturers in China and would-be resellers in the USA and also having tested several cartridge systems and resetters, I have become -with some modesty- a pioneer on this field, for those interested in having an affordable refillable system for the Epson Pro 3800/3880. The main reason is the fact the electronic part: the chips seem to be so well encrypted, that it is still not possible to have direct resettable alternatives. Even with the Inkrepublic's Pro 3800/Pro 3880 I-refill system one has to transfer the original Epson chips on these cartridges to let them function. Other systems use bridge chips to communicate with the original chips to tell the printer "hey, I am a original Epson cartridge and I am full".

Actually I have spent hundreds of euro's and actually "sacrifice" myself to even the path for the would-be refillers, but are afraid to have working and most importantly reliable refill system for these fantastic printers (Pro 3800 and the Pro 3880). I am still very happy with the reliability of these carts and the ease (albeit strange way) to reset the chips and also very important the waste ink tank. Now we have to look about the quality of the refill inks.

Did you read my topic about removing the printer cover to modify the the cover so the printer looks less clumsy with these long cartridges ?

 

[cwphoto]

Hi Troy,

Nice to hear the overall performance of the Inkrepublic IRK4-nano pigment ink is very good indeed, just what I was suspecting, since I only have the LM and the PK refilled with this ink and the other carts with Image Specialists K4 ink and I already noticed the improved gloss differential with these two inks installed compared to the previous IM-K4 LM and PK.

About the LLK ink not being optimal: I think we should live with it, until Inkrepublic will introduce a better ink. Since my B/W-prints are almost entirely on semimatte and satin papers I do not think this will be a problem for me. For me B/W-prints should be on done less glossy papers, even matte types of paper. Glossy papers are better for colour prints and I think with the IRK4-nano colours this will not cause a problem with an annoying amount of bronzing, since you have stated and confirmed the gloss is very good indeed for the coloured inks.

pharmacist:

First off, I wanted to thank you for your contribution as it has been invaluable. I know it takes a considerable amount of time to contribute to these types of forms, particularly if you are also adding images. I would not have even considered purchasing the system if it was not for your contribution. I did modify the lid on my printer btw--works great!

As to the inks, I decided to order a 220 mL Epson LLK from a New York vendor. I reviewed the prints again this morning, and it appears to me that the darker tones created with the PK ink have greater gloss than the midtones and highlights created with the LLK. I also have clear proof that when using the LLK Epson ink (no other change) the prints were much glossier. To me, it's worth spending the extra money to try to eliminate this gloss differential problem. The Epson ink works out to about $.38 per ML compared to I think about $.12 for ink Republican ink. Is it worth three times the price for better gloss? For me, the answer is yes. I am really bothered by this gloss differential and find it quite distracting.

It still remains to be seen if there are other inks that exhibit any problems, but it seems for now the color inks are okay. Until I use up all of my Epson ink, I just won't know. I will certainly keep a close eye on things as I change ink and report back.

Troy

 

[pharmacist]

Hi Troy,

Maybe you should report this back to Amanda @inkrepublic.com and tell her about this problem. I think they will listen to your complains about the gloss differential and maybe they will figure something out in the future. It is possible they will change the formulation for this colour to obtain a higher gloss. Actually I find it strange that black seems to be very glossy and the LLk ink is muted.

 

[cwphoto]

Hi Troy,

Maybe you should report this back to Amanda @inkrepublic.com and tell her about this problem. I think they will listen to your complains about the gloss differential and maybe they will figure something out in the future. It is possible they will change the formulation for this colour to obtain a higher gloss. Actually I find it strange that black seems to be very glossy and the LLk ink is muted.

I have emailed Amanda about the problem. Yes, it's strange to me too, but I have clear proof that the gloss was better with the Epson LLK, compared to the ink republic ink. I am using luster or satin paper btw. I rarely use gloss.

Troy

 

[fortisi876]

So I'm having problems resetting one of my colordroplets carts and I think it may be related to letting the ink level go beneath 5%.....although the level says 4% on my computer it states 5% on the printer LED....could the problem be something else?

If not, how do I go about purchasing/acquiring another chip that hasn't fallen below 5%?

Thnx!


FYI- I FINALLY got it to work (yesss!) it took 4-5 attempts but this last time I gave every single connection point a real good erasure wipe and that seemed to do the trick. I left the question cuz I'd still like to know how to go about purchasing a chip if I should make that mistake one day.

Also regarding the Maintenance Cart.......I tried using my resetter from colordroplets and it doesnt seem to wanna reset, what are my alternatives?

Lastly, what's the deal with the I-Refill unitsm how do they go about resetting w/out resetters?

 

[pharmacist]

HI fortis876,

The colordroplet resetter I have does not work with the maintenance tank. You will need the blue resetter mentioned on the second or third page. Don't know about the I-Refill system how it is able to reset the whole system including the waste ink tank, but it works.

 

[fortisi876]

Thnx for the quick reply Pharm, I REALLY appreciate it. About the I-refill system, is there a program downloaded to the pc? If not, is there any sorta chip installed on the cart or no? Very interested in learning more about that set up. I'm starting to regret not just spending the extra coin on that system but I didn't like having to remove the cover.