Refilling CLI-8 and PGI-5 cartridges

[jru]

Hi everyone,
I am new to this forum but want to express my appreciation to everyone. This is a great forum! The spirit of helping each other is quite impressive.

I have read through many of the posts and FAQs.
I have just bought a Canon ip4300 inkjet.

I have several questions about refilling my OEM carts when they run down:

1. Does the "German" technique of refilling (see http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewto 9279#p9279), posted 12/1/06 by defcon2, seem better than other methods of refilling?
It appears in the video of the German technique that the exit hole (that leads to printhead) is left open, and the ink forces air out of the exit hole?
Would it be even better to seal the exit hole with the orange plastic holder, so that as the reservoir is filled, air is forced out the vent hole (built into cartridge above sponge)?
Since NO hole is made in the ink reservoir chamber, doesn't this German technique push air out of the sponge (a good thing), removing the need to do purges or vacuum refills, (and also removing the incomplete dispersion of ink in the sponge problem that Milkling posted photos about --- see his post at 10/26/2006 10:33:27 pm)? Wouldn't that make this a preferred method of refilling?

If using Milkling's method of injecting ink into two separate holes in the sponge, should the holes be left open after filling, for venting?
(MIS's instructions leave the single hole they recommend putting in the sponge chamber open for additional venting)


2. Neil Slade recommends Computer Friends for 1st refill kit, with "Blue plugs" for refill hole, as best. Do folks agree? Anyone had a bad experience with these plugs?


3. When removing my original carts to refill them, do I need to have purchased a 2nd set of carts to put back in printer while refilling, so that printheads are not exposed to air? If so, once they are opened, how to prevent them from drying out once the refilled original carts are replaced in printer? (I've seen that some use food storage bags with wet paper towel and alcohol, but can they stay with exposed exit holes in there long enough until next refill?).


4. If periodic "purging" of carts is necessary, is the method given at http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/canon-BCI-6-cartridges.php --
ok for cli-8 & pgi-5 carts (as well as the bci carts)?

Whatever of these questions you might be able to offer guidance on, I'd appreciate.

Thanks to everyone's contribution to this forum.

Dennis

 

[fotofreek]

2. Neil Slade recommends Computer Friends for 1st refill kit, with "Blue plugs" for refill hole, as best. Do folks agree? Anyone had a bad experience with these plugs?

The blue plugs are excellent if you are going to pop the ball out of the original fill hole and use the blue plugs to reaseal it. I've left the ball in place, made a small hole near the factory fill hole, and set up all my carts with stainless steel screws and o-rings.

3. When removing my original carts to refill them, do I need to have purchased a 2nd set of carts to put back in printer while refilling, so that printheads are not exposed to air? If so, once they are opened, how to prevent them from drying out once the refilled original carts are replaced in printer? (I've seen that some use food storage bags with wet paper towel and alcohol, but can they stay with exposed exit holes in there long enough until next refill?).

Always best to have a spare set of filled carts to replace immediately. Then fill the carts you have removed.

4. If periodic "purging" of carts is necessary, is the method given at http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/canon-BCI-6-cartridges.php --ok for cli-8 & pgi-5 carts (as well as the bci carts)?

I have no personal experience with the new carts, but I don't know why purging wouldn't work. The only exception would be if the chip might be damaged by getting wet.

 

[Xalky]

If using Milkling's method of injecting ink into two separate holes in the sponge, should the holes be left open after filling, for venting?
(MIS's instructions leave the single hole they recommend putting in the sponge chamber open for additional venting)

I'm fairly new to refilling cli-8 carts also, but I've already refilled 6-7 cartridges. I use miklings method, and it works well. I seal the large refill hole with a stainless 10/32 screw and a rubber o-ring. I seal the tiny injection holes with good quality black electrical tape for easy refilling. The tape seems to work fine. I bought my first refill kit from mikling http://stores.ebay.com/PrecisionColors His kit includes screws and a syringe and ink, good quality Image Specialists ink.

3. When removing my original carts to refill them, do I need to have purchased a 2nd set of carts to put back in printer while refilling, so that printheads are not exposed to air? If so, once they are opened, how to prevent them from drying out once the refilled original carts are replaced in printer? (I've seen that some use food storage bags with wet paper towel and alcohol, but can they stay with exposed exit holes in there long enough until next refill?).

I use a square tupperware container with a wet paper towel, soaked with water and alcohol, to keep the carts from drying out.

4. If periodic "purging" of carts is necessary, is the method given at http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/canon-BCI-6-cartridges.php --
ok for cli-8 & pgi-5 carts (as well as the bci carts)?

I'm sure the purging method would be the same for the cli-8 carts. They're very smilar in design. I haven't had to purge carts yet. I'm using miklings method to refill to avoid the purging or at least prolong the time required between purgings.


Xalky

 

[mikling]

If you're printing a lot, you can leave the two holes open if you wish it is not going to make a big difference. If you are a light user, it's probably better to seal the hole as this will minimize drying of the ink on the upper layers of the sponge which can then lead to ink flow problems. The air vent labyrinth is there to slow down the mixing of the 100% humidity level within the cart and whatever lower level it is outside.
If you leave the hole open and exposed the travel path from the dry air to the humid air within the sponge part is very short and drying will occur much sooner.

 

[dparadowski]

Can somebody please repost the German refilling technique. I clicked on the link above and it doesn't work. Also I searched for the author and found nothing.

 

[ghwellsjr]

The German refilling technique was first posted here:

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=9279#p9279

Briefly, it involves drilling a small hole in the end of the sponge side of the cartridge just above the bottom and inserting the needle of a syringe long enough to go all the way through the sponge material into the hole at the bottom of the barrier that separates the two chambers. This allows ink to be injected directly into the reservoir without making an additional hole in the reservoir and therefore without the need to reseal a refill hole.

 

[ghwellsjr]

Would it be even better to seal the exit hole with the orange plastic holder, so that as the reservoir is filled, air is forced out the vent hole (built into cartridge above sponge)?
Since NO hole is made in the ink reservoir chamber, doesn't this German technique push air out of the sponge (a good thing), removing the need to do purges or vacuum refills, (and also removing the incomplete dispersion of ink in the sponge problem that Milkling posted photos about --- see his post at 10/26/2006 10:33:27 pm)? Wouldn't that make this a preferred method of refilling?

First off, you can see Mikling's post at:

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=8542#p8542

Note that the date/time may be different if you are not in the same time zone as the poster. If you want to reference another post within a thread, go to that post and right-click on the date/time stamp in the upper left corner of the post and select "Copy Shortcut" and then paste it into your post.

Now to the question that jru asked about: I doubt that the German technique will remove the need to do purges or vacuum refills (if there is a need). There just isn't enough force available from the syringe to drive the air pockets out of the sponge material. Instead, the ink will just take the path of least resistance through the sponge, and that may be along the hole created by syringe needle, or if the ink doesn't take this path, it may simply go where there is already ink, but probably not where there is an air pocket.

The reason that vacuum refilling removes air pockets is that it removes air, simply put. When the vacuum is released, ink flows into every nook and cranny of the cartridge, including every pore in the sponge material.

The reason that purging with water removes air pockets is because of the very high pressure and volume of the water--much higher than could be achieved with a syringe.

There are actually two different phenomena that are being discussed here: one is the problem of getting air into the sponge material by using a cartridge until the red alert comes up saying that the cartridge is empty (not to be confused with the earlier yellow alert saying that the cartridge is low) and the other is the problem of allowing the ink in the upper portions of the sponge material to dry out. Both of these conditions can be alleviated by purging with water or vacuum filling.

However, as I alluded to earlier, there may not even be a need to use one of these techniques. I really don't know. I think what Mikling was suggesting is that forcing ink through all parts of the sponge will keep it from drying out. He was saying that dispersion is not enough of a force to wet the portions of the sponge furthest away from the ink source (the bottom of the reservoir in conventional refilling). And that is all that the German technique does also, but with a continual flow of ink as jru suggests, this may cause the entire sponge to be wetted. I would say that experimentation is the only way to know for sure.

JRU, you might be able to do some experiments similar to what Mikling did to see if your extension of the German technique will force ink throughout the entire sponge area. Let us know what you find.

 

[ghwellsjr]

2. Neil Slade recommends Computer Friends for 1st refill kit, with "Blue plugs" for refill hole, as best. Do folks agree? Anyone had a bad experience with these plugs?

I have had two problems with the Blue plugs:

1) Sometimes they won't go into the refill hole all the way unless the hole is enlarged to the correct diameter.

2) Sometimes after being in a cartridge for a long time, they break in half instead of pulling out.

But when they work, they are great. Since I now vacuum fill my cartridges, I no longer need the Blue plugs for regular ink cartridges but I still use them for my cleaning cartridges.

 

[ghwellsjr]

There just isn't enough force available from the syringe to drive the air pockets out of the sponge material. Instead, the ink will just take the path of least resistance through the sponge, and that may be along the hole created by syringe needle, or if the ink doesn't take this path, it may simply go where there is already ink, but probably not where there is an air pocket.

There are actually two different phenomena that are being discussed here: one is the problem of getting air into the sponge material by using a cartridge until the red alert comes up saying that the cartridge is empty (not to be confused with the earlier yellow alert saying that the cartridge is low) and the other is the problem of allowing the ink in the upper portions of the sponge material to dry out. Both of these conditions can be alleviated by purging with water or vacuum filling.

Something just occurred to me as I was rereading this thread, which is that the German technique will actually drive air into the sponge material before it drives ink into the sponge material. So it will be creating one of the problems that people are trying to avoid by refilling as soon as the yellow ink warning comes on. But, as I said before, this may or may not be a real problem, only experience will determine whether continued use of the German technique will be reliable.

 

[jru]

Thank you, everyone, for your thoughtful responses...