Refilling Canon 520/525 Cartridges

[Cedric]

9 months ago this forum gave me usefull info for my Pixma 4600. I have now bought a 4850, but refill ink is giving similar problems to those that killed the 4600. Refilling the colour 521 cartridges was OK, but either the 520 cartridge or the black portion of the head seemed to clog up, reaching a point where washing could not get it going.

Discussion with local (Australian) ink suppliers has left me uncertain of the cause, & I am seeing early signs of the refill black ink causing problems - after printing 100 pages with a refilled 525 I had to wash the printhead to get all black nozzles printing. I then switched to an old 520 cartridge with original ink, which worked OK (seemingly suggesting the blockages were in the cartridge rather than the head).

The supplier suggests the continual wet & dry cycles are causing foam breakdown, which is clogging the jets. His black ink is dye-based, whereas the original Canon 520/525 ink is pigment based. I wonder if the foam in the 520/525 differs to that in the 521/526 cartridges, & is incompatible with dye-ink. If so, would taking the top off, replacing the foam with foam from old 521 cartridges (cut to shape) & gluing the top back on allow use of the dye-based ink? Alternately, I have found a supplier who states his ink is pigment based - would that be a better option to try. In all cases, is the cause incompatible ink, or incompatible foam, or might the inks be too coarse for the 4850 cartridges or printhead?

The supplier I have been talking to stated they supply dye-based ink for the 525 becuase it is lower viscosity that pigment based ones. I understand these are non-newtonian fluids, & I don't know whether the lower viscosity is at the relatively low shear rates used for standard laboratory viscosity tests, or the much higher shear rates as the fluid moves through the print head, ie I am uncrtain if this supplier understands non-Newtonian fluids.

So my problem is that I dont know why refilling the 520 or 525 is giving unsatisfactory results. Also, I dont have any way of assessing relative quality of the ink from various suppliers especially whether they have been filtered adequately. All suppliers claim their inks have been micro-filtered.

An alternative is to get a CISS system, but that more than doubles the printer cost, and is hard to justify for my modest amounts of printing.

Any suggestions on a way forward would be appreciated.

 

[stratman]

Specifically, what refill ink are you using?

How old is the ink?

What manufacturer of cartridge are you using?

How old / how many times have you refilled the cartridges?

What method of refilling are you using, including how you reseal holes (if at all)?

Why are you using non-pigment ink in place of pigment ink?

Have you noticed any unusual ink pooling or mess?

How often do you print something that uses all the ink cartridges? Every day? Week? Month?

What sort of environmental conditions is the printer exposed to?




You never want to open up a cartridge. Used OEM cartridges or New OEM cartridges are the only way to go for refilling if you want the least risk for problems.

CISS units and Canon printers are difficult companions. You are better off refilling a Canon and printing at least a nozzle check every week to keep the printer in good working conditions.

People are using high quality pigment inks in their 520/220 OEM cartridges without problem. The forum can recommend high quality ink suppliers for your location (Australia?).

A typical suggestion in your situation would be to try a new OEM cartridge, or a cartridge that is known to work. Since you said a different 520 cartridge worked, maybe all you need to do is flush the problem cartridge(s) to return them to proper functioning. It could be other things, such as a malfunctioning purge unit or purge pad, but we'll cross that road when we get to it.

Please post a nozzle check on this thread, as well as any other images you think might demonstrate your issue best.

 

[Cedric]

Specifically, what refill ink are you using?

I had trouble with black ink from inkjetwholesale, so tried some from InkTec which also seemed to be giving trouble. Following advice from the Whirlpool forum, I now have Rihac ink, which also appears to be troublesome. By trouble I mean that a deposit quickly forms on the top of black inlet to the printhead, and black printing becomes patchy (presumably some nozzles are not printing). Immersing the printhead in water removes this deposit, restoring black printing. But with the previous printhead and inkjetwholesale ink the problem gradually became worse, until Black completely failed to print, and did not respond to soaking the printhead in hot water. I tried 2 cartridges, so the fault seemed to be in the printhead. I say seemed - Canon's repair shop wouldn't really describe what they found, but I think there were some firmware issues as well.

How old is the ink?

The Rihac ink is less than a month old, the InkTec lot would be a few months, the inkjetwholesale batch is a bit over two years.

What manufacturer of cartridge are you using?

I'm generally using Canon cartridges, the current PGI520 cartridge is stamped made in Japan, ast was the PGI525 installed after the recent warranty repair. Some of my colour cartridges (CLI521/526) would have been filled more than 10 times and are still working perfectly well. The PGI525 started incomplete printing maybe 100 pages after 1st refill (with the Rihac ink).

What method of refilling are you using, including how you reseal holes (if at all)?

Years ago I got a refill kit from easyrefills.com.au. The basic method is to drill a hole just near the "push" notation on the top of the tank, using the small drill that is part of the kit. Placed tape over the bottom outlet, otherwise once you fill ink will run out before you manage to put the plug in this drilled top hole (probably could be avoided by just holding your thumb firmly over the outlet). Fill the open reservoir (ie part that has no sponge) using supplied syringe - the transparent sides in the 520/521 cartridges make it easier to see when it is full, than the opaque tank sides in the 525/526 cartridges. Insert the plastic plugs that come in the kit. Once these are inserted I find there is virtually no leakage out the bottom outlet.

Why are you using non-pigment ink in place of pigment ink?

These retailers (several retailers) tell me this is suitable ink! You will have gathered from my initial post to this thread, that I now question this. I see bizco offers a pigmented ink <http://www.bizco.com.au/Inktec-Canon-Pgi-525Bk-Black-Pigmented-Bulk-Ink-(100Ml)>, so am wondering whether you know if this is a good quality ink, adequately filtered, etc? Is there any significance in the word InkTec in that address?

Have you noticed any unusual ink pooling or mess?

No

How often do you print something that uses all the ink cartridges? Every day? Week? Month?

Usually more often than weekly.

What sort of environmental conditions is the printer exposed to?

In a home office, facing east but shielded from the morning sun. Overnight temperatures would rarely be below 10 C, daytime temperatures last summer probably never reached 35. Melbourne has lower humidity than coastal cities to the north, and my place has an evaporative cooler, but it was only used a few times last summer (of course with open windows).

It will be a few weeks or more before I do a long enough run to re-create a cartridge in the half fail mode (I currently have a 520 that hasnt yet been refilled, and one with colour working OK, absolutely nill black output, so a nozzle check will be blank. Does the above info assist you in recommending aa good ink?

And thanks for your detailed response.

 

[stratman]

To clarify:

1) It is the Pigment Black cartridge that is the problem, whether you use a refilled 520 or a 525 cartridge.

2) There is no problem now that you are using a new, not refilled pigment black cartridge.

3) Some sort of "deposit" forms on the inlet screen of the print head. This is the Pigment Black inlet screen and not the Dye-based Black or any of the other Dye-based CLI-526 inks.

4) You use the Top Fill method.

5) Washing the print head is a temporary fix.

6) You print something that uses all the cartridges inks at least weekly.

7) You were using Dye-based Black instead of Pigment Black ink because???

8) You believe the problem will occur again with the new, not refilled Pigment Black cartridge when you have a print job that has some sufficient number of pages to be printed in one session, but has not showed up yet because you are not printing enough pages at one time currently.

-------

I don't know what this "deposit" is. Sludged ink? A precipitate? Bacterial/fungal growth. An improper seal on the top refill hole leading to pooling on the ink inlet screens which then congeals? The environment you have the printer in does not sound extreme.

One of the things suggested when there is a printing problem like yours is to try a new OEM cartridge to see if the problem persists, since it is likely the new OEM cartridge will function properly - you don't want to confuse the issue more using unknown replacements. My impression at this point, since things are working fine with a new, not refilled cartridge, is that your refilled cartridges are in need of a flush/purge to remove sludged ink or some other matter in the sponges. Sounds like ink starvation if the problem shows up during long printing sessions - ink is not able to traverse the sponges properly due to some resistance to flow within the sponge(s). (there are more than one number and type of sponges in the Canon cartridge) Some instructions/tips on flushing/purging cartridges can be found here .

Is it possible that the problem is due to something else? Maybe, but at this point, given the info presented, I would start with the cartridge(s) and then expand the search if that fails. One thing to consider - not using the Pigment Black inkjetwholesale ink anymore as this is old ink and may be prone to issues in the first place (deposits?).

Rihac is believed to be good quality ink. Many people like Inktec ink as well. Another source of good quality ink would be Image Specialists (forum member websnail sells them at http://www.octoink.co.uk/) and there are some German retailers as well. One thing that seems to be true is that no matter whose Pigment Ink you use, problems can arise, which is why some people use Dye-based Blacks instead. (Dye-based inks are water soluble and much less prone to causing clogs and sludging) The best way to avoid issues with Pigment Black ink is to print a lot or perform a scheduled flush/purge of the cartridge after X number of refills before the problem arises (works best if you have at least two cartridges so you will not interrupt use of the printer while the flushed cartridge is worked on). If your environmental conditions are very dry and hot, you may need to print more than once a week.

To reiterate, flushing/purging your Pigment Black cartridges may resolve your issue. I would suggest flushing all your Pigment Black cartridges at some point.

I am unclear if you are using all OEM Canon cartridges for refilling. While some people have been successful using aftermarket cartridges for refilling, there have been too many reports of problems occurring to recommend anything other that OEM Canon cartridges for refilling purposes.

It still would be good to post a nozzle check even if things seem to be working fine right now. There could be something going on you might have missed that we may pick up on. Either way, it is still good to have a proper baseline for future reference.

 

[Tin Ho]

So my problem is that I dont know why refilling the 520 or 525 is giving unsatisfactory results. Also, I dont have any way of assessing relative quality of the ink from various suppliers especially whether they have been filtered adequately. All suppliers claim their inks have been micro-filtered.

Any suggestions on a way forward would be appreciated.

This is a very common problem in refilling PGI-220, PGI-225 and PGI-520, PGI-525 OEM cartridges that contain black pigment ink. You need to purge the PGI-520/525 cartridges before refilling. If your print head is not clogged just purge those cartridges and refill them again. They will work just fine. It is not the ink to blame.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

I think stratman's post is right on. I can also add something.

I don't understand why you are using black dye ink, though, when the printer is designed for black pigment. The print head is designed differently for pigment than for dye ink--the nozzles having a larger diameter for pigment. It is possible to substitute dye for pigment, but the printer is designed for pigment, and I would not substitute dye without a special reason. It is possible to flocculate (i.e. coagulate) pigment ink by mixing it with other fluids. Some people have reported that dye ink will do that. I think it's possible that you had a small problem, and then made it worse by refilling with dye, thereby causing some coagulation.

I believe that when people mentioned foam, they were referring to air in the sponge inside the cartridge, not the sponge material itself. For now I don't think you have to worry about either one. Except for creating a small refill hole in the top, I would not open the cartridge or attempt to repair a cartridge internally. That is totally unnecessary, and asking for disaster.

I think you should use Canon cartridges and refill them by either the German method or the topfill method. But do not let them dry out when they are not in use! The sponge must not be dried out when you refill, and it should not have dried or coagulated ink in there. Most people recommend refilling them before they get completely empty, and that should usually prevent most problems. Use good ink that is specifically designed for your printer and that cartridge type. (I can attest that Image Specialists pigment black works well, at least for my printer.) The purging that stratman mentioned is a procedure to clean out the cartridges and leave the sponges moist, in case you do get dried ink in there.

 

[Cedric]

Stratman
Looking at flushing/purging methods, they suggest a week to dry the cartridge under a lamp after flushing, so it will be a while before I post the results of that. Meanwhile, here are answers to your other questions.

It is the Pigment Black cartridge that is the problem, whether you use a refilled 520 or a 525 cartridge.

Yes, pigment black is the problem. I use so little CLI526bl that I cant say it is giving absolutely no problems, but it is not what I am trying to fix up. The the other 3 colours work well.

There is no problem now that you are using a new, not refilled pigment black cartridge.

Correct. This new 521 has is now virtually empty, so I will purge it as well as the other pigment black cartridges.

Some sort of "deposit" forms on the inlet screen of the print head. This is the Pigment Black inlet screen and not the Dye-based Black or any of the other Dye-based CLI-526 inks.

After washing the printhead, what is probably dry ink forms on all inlet screens probably more on the pigment black one. This is easily removed by washing. When black text started printing incompletely, or poor density with refilled ink, washing this deposit off restored good quality printing. But the frequency of washing increased, until I could not restore any black printing however by that time the printer had other faults, so I cant be certain it was just a cartridge/ink/printhead problem

You use the Top Fill method.

Yes

Washing the print head is a temporary fix

Yes

You print something that uses all the cartridges inks at least weekly.

Yes, maybe except the black dye (I now realise the possible failure of it once might have had a different cause to the cause of the pigment failure, namely inadequate use.

You were using Dye-based Black instead of Pigment Black ink because???

It is what most Australian suppliers have, and when questioned they were adamant it did as good as, or better job.

You believe the problem will occur again with the new, not refilled Pigment Black cartridge when you have a print job that has some sufficient number of pages to be printed in one session, but has not showed up yet because you are not printing enough pages at one time currently.

I fear once I refill the new Canon 520 cartridge (which is now virtually empty), it will gradually fail over a period on maybe 5 refills, as did the 525, whether used in 1 or 2 or 3 large 1-day runs, or many smaller print runs.

I don't know what this "deposit" is. Sludged ink? ...........

I have used 2 printheads and more than 2 cartridges, so I doubt it is defective shape of the components leading to improper seals. The frequent washing should have prevented biological activity. I have experienced the problem with several Canon cartridges, once refilled.
All my cartridges are Canon originals, not after-market ones.

Another question: I had not run into the idea of flushing until you mentioned it. But all the PGI520 & CLI521 cartridges I have seen contain opaque sides except for the clear wall against the tank, ie the wall of the section containing the sponge is opaque. The 525 and 526 are worse the complete cartridge wall is opaque. This means that during flushing I cannot see when the sponge is clean. Do I just wait until the discharge water is clear?

ThrillaMozilla
As mentioned above, most Australian ink retailer I have found on the Internet supply dye-based ink to refill the PGI-520 & 525 Canon cartridges. Bizco is the only one I have found that claims there ink for these cartridges is pigment should I try that, or 1st try just flushing prior to refilling with my exiting ink from Rihac?

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

This new 521 has is now virtually empty, so I will purge it as well as the other pigment black cartridges.

If it were mine, I wouldn't flush it. I would just refill it with Image Specialists pigment ink, designed for that cartridge.

 

[The Hat]

Cedric
Looking at flushing/purging methods, they suggest a week to dry the cartridge under a lamp after flushing,
so it will be a while before I post the results of that.

There is no need to wait a week for a purged cartridge to dry the link below will show you how to get it down to minutes

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=34175#p34175

Question when you refill your cartridge do you cover the air vent on the top of your cartridge at all.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

But there shouldn't be any need to flush a new, OEM cartridge, provided you don't let it dry out and you refill with the same type of ink -- right? I diluted some ink with water for testing (I believe it was tap water, but I don't have notes on it), and it flocculated. That would definitely cause problems. I would be really careful about flushing like this.