Problem Refilling CLI-8 and PGI-5 Cartridges

[cannonvictim]

I have not been able to do a nozzle cleaning operation since I started refilling my carts. on the Pixma IP5200. When I go to the Maintenance tab for the printer and press clean, I eventually get a screen that causes a nozzle test pattern, but never can get to a cleaning cycle. The instructions that came with my Precision Scientific set of refill inks say to do a nozzle clean when first installing the refilled cart. I notice that I am getting a very faint grey from the CLI 8 black cart. which is a brand new OEM from Canon. The refilled cyan and PGBK colors are intense. I posted a thread saying I was going to give up my printer if I had to refill cartridges but several members encouraged me that refilling was easy. I had had bad luck refilling my wife's HP and my old Lexmark but I gave it a try. What I found is that the process is the worst of all. You have to get a ball out of the cart. and screw a seal in its place. I found that the hole was wide and the screw threads didn't really have enough bite to get the screw sealed. Also I found the original twist off sealers for the jet and tried to seal the outlet hole by taping one of those back on. What a joke. It leaked like a sieve. The PGI5 I just taped shut and I had no problem. I think I leaked out most of the cyan color.

Just griping, Help!!!

Cannonvictim

 

[jackson]

On an IP5000 (predecessor to your model) holding the reset button in and letting the power led go off and on, now release reset button, results in a head cleaning.

Letting it flash two times gives a nozzle check.

 

[cannonvictim]

I may have based my speculation on the old HP printer I had used. There a jet cleaning was done by printing a page with a very heavy ink pattern. I suspect I have been squirting ink into some cleaning reservoir inside the printer. If so I have wasted a lot of ink.

Cannonvictim

 

[SLR_65]

I see by your last post that evidently things are working OK as the Canons do not print a page like your HP did. That's not really Canon's fault you didn't know that so don't hold it against the printer!

The refilling of the ip4200 cartridges is really the easiest I've done in all the years I've been refilling!

I've used the caps that came with them on the output ports - that does work, you just got to make sure that the tape, rubber band, or whatever you used to hold it on is applying pressure equally and not letting it tip off center. Black electrical tape also works well, though the cheap tape I use sometimes leaves a sticky residue on the port which I'm sure isn't good. It's easy to clean off, but it is something to be aware of. I'm wondering if a strip of plastic Saran wrap couldn't be used?

Removing the plug in the original fill holes is easy - use a small screw and hold it with a pair of pliers and then heat up the screw. Stick the hot screw into the plug - it'll go in easy as the plug melts very easy. Then give it a twist so it bites and wait a minute for it to cool, then pull it out with a sharp movement and it'll come right out. It's really very easy!

Once it's out tap the hole with a 8-32 tap or maybe even just a 8-32 screw (I dunno if that works as I have a tap so I haven't tried). Then squirt in your refill ink, and then install an 8-32 nylon screw and rubber o-ring and wah lah! You're done! Simple! The 8-32 works fine and makes a good bite in my cartridges - I dunno why it would be a loose fit in yours, unless you aren't using the recommended 8-32 . . . maybe you inadvertantly picked up something smaller? (see the sticky on the nifty stuff home page about this - it's labled for the BCI6 cartridges, but it applies to the BCI8s too)

I think I'm as happy with my ip4200 as I've ever been with a printer! You CAN refill the cartridges easily, it does automatic double sided printing which I just love, and it prints on CDs . . . and I only paid around $70 for it . . . delivered! Quite a bargain in my opinion!

The only thing I've ran into is that the nylon screws just barely touched the inside lip of the cartridge access area when printing CDs . . . nothing a couple minutes with the Dremel tool couldn't fix! (see my other posts on that subject in another thread).

Refilling isn't particularly hard, but it's also not "easy" either . . . you almost certainly will get some ink on ya, but if you use the screws to plug the fill hole it's not bad at all (I used the rubber plugs before the screws and the plugs SUCK! I have big fingers and no coordination!), so be patient and give it another try.

Take Care,

Steve

 

[cannonvictim]

Thanks for the encouragement SLR
I used the thin strapping tape used for packages when I filled the PGI 5 pigmented black cartridge and it worked perfectly. I bought my refill kit from Precision Color that often posts in this forum. The kit came with instructions to use a hot paper clip or turkey needle to make the initial hole in the fill hole ball, and warned to be careful of the edges of the refill hole when using the hot needle. I didn't think I had damaged anything but the screws that came in the kit fit very loosely. I doubt they will maintain a seal if they ever got one. Ive got another cartridge to work with if I can't get the first to seal. I didn't get any o-rings with the kit just short 8/32 flat top machine screws and a chunk of what looks like blue tack sealing putty. It didn't stick at all, but maybe there was too much leaked ink where it should have been perfectly dry. I never before had to remove any seals to refill the HP. Just drill a small hole in the top. I find the step to be challenging. Also the technical discussions about mazes and ventilation and the different kinds of foam and which layers need to be dry and which wet and also getting the air out of the foam correctly seem very complex to me. I know I didn't know what I was doing when I started and probably don't now. The instructions and pictures with the refill kit differ from some of the posts here. I don't see why a small hole can't be drilled in the top of the empty part of the reservoir and just refilled and sealed with a piece of tape instead of messing with the ball at all.
Cannonvictim

 

[SLR_65]

Hi CanonVictim,

I haven't tried the strapping tape, I've just used the black electrical tape and the original caps. The black electrical tape works well as it's very stretchy so just pull it tight across the output port and it'll seal it nicely. Again though, I have had a little adhesive residual left on the output port, but it was easily cleaned off.

I don't have any experience with Precision Color, I've boughten my inks off of eBay from HobbiColors and have been happy with the ink, but unhappy with the little rubber plugs they supplied -> they just sucked to install! I see now that they've modified those plugs by putting a head on them, so maybe they are better now.

I just used a small screw and heated it up to remove the plug in the original hole, and yes - be carefull you don't booger up the sides of the hole, but my screw was thin enough that it was very easy to hit the middle of the plug. I think if you would use an 0-ring in conjunction with the screw that even if you did booger up the side wall of the hole you'd probably get a seal.

Are the screws they sent you fine thread machine screws or more course threaded self tapping type screws? I imagine the blue putty stuff is there to be placed under the screw head to make a seal. If the fit of the screw is loose then maybe try some of that teflon tape plumbers use? A couple wraps of it ought to help tighten things up and help seal too. Also, did you cut threads with a tap or just let the screw do it? If the screw did it then maybe you wobbled around a bit while tapping and that's what's caused it to be loose? If you don't have a tap and die set then look at the local home improvement store in the electrical tools section - they make a tool that has several taps (6-32, 8-32, 10-24) all lined up in a screw driver handle - it's used to rethread outlet cover plate mounts and stuff. Klein is a top of the line company and their part number for that tool is 625-24 - do a Google search for that so you can see what I'm talking about. I think the Klein ones run around $10, but I've seen cheaper generic brands in the home improvement stores. Using a tap I think is a better idea as they are tapered at the end so they start easily without wobbling around.

I haven't worried about the vent mazes, sponges, flushing/cleaning, etc. yet. I've refilled mine a couple times just by injecting ink in the reservoir side through the original fill hole and from what I gather they'll go 5 to 10 times before problems develop so I think I'll just toss the cartridge and put a new one in and start over if I get problems. Averaging the cost of an occasional new tank out with the savings from the refilling still makes refilling very cost effective.

When I refill I tend to fill the ink up to -just- shy of being level with the sponge and it's worked fine so far, and that's the extent of the attention I've paid to the sponges!

You can just drill a small hole to inject the ink and leave the original fill hole alone, but when I did that I found tape to not always work - or work for a while and then let go in my printer! The small plugs that came in my refill kit did work once I got them in, but I just hated putting them in! Hot glue would work but when I tried it it would sound like something was hitting in my printer when I printed a CD. I had the same thing happen when I put the nylon screws in. Turns out the head lifts up to print on CDs and there's not much room between the tops of the cartridges and the lip of the case where the cover comes down for the ink access. That lip doesn't do anything, so I just ground it off so I could use my nylon screws. I didn't take the time to troubleshoot when I tried hot glue - I just removed the glue and went back to the plugs. Pealing the glue up kinda sucked, but I'm a "more is better" type guy, I'm sure if you were reasonable on the amount of glue that it would be a workable solution also.

Trust me though, the nylon screws and o-rings are the way to go!

TTYL,

Steve

 

[mikling]

Cannonvictim, the screws supplied do fit perfectly. I have supplied thousands of them and have never heard nor personally experienced otherwise. They are precision high quality Stainless 18/8 Steel ones. If you had read the instructions, the method of sealing is by having the taper of the machine screw seal on the edges of the hole. The screws are not loose. I also supplied a push pin and a self tapping ring eye. This is the safest method of getting the ball out. The principle is the same as SLR_65 used but the small push pin and self tapping ring eye allows less risk of damaging the hole.
I supplied blue tack ONLY in the event you made a mistake while removing the ball. Most people who preread the instructions and proceed, and understanding the importance of not damaging the edge of the hole. do so successfully So in the offchance you damaged a hole edge, the blue tack would help you still retain a seal. The seal is not by the thread, The taper on the machine screw head actually partially goes into the hole and seals like a cone. This aspect is explained in the instructions.

The reason why the ball hole is used is twofold. It doesn't require that the user use a drill as not everyone has a drill and correct sized bit at their disposal. Secondly, the hub that the ball sits on does provide much meat. If you were to tighten on it sufficient force is applied to distort the cartridge. So I just don't understand how the hole would have been enlarged that much.

Using the machine screw also allows sealing even if the screw is inserted obliquely so it was considered as foolproof as possible. Grandad even pointed the advantage of this aspect in one thread. Unfortunately you seem to have done something wrong intially with the Cyan and managed to get the PGI-5 correct afterwards. The holes are the same size on both cartridges so again that begs the question how did the Cyan hole become enlarged.

All the processes and procedures and methods have been discussed on various threads here. The method of removing the ball was posted by Lilla and is very similar to SLR_65 method and the type of screws and method of sealing was outlined by Grandad and myself in prior threads.

You can always drill a hole and seal with tape but in the event the tape lets loose, you are going to have a mess on your hands and that is why a method with screw is deemed safer .. albeit if done properly.

As SLR_65 has said, refilling these Canons is about as easy as it gets. If you deem it too tricky then the purchase of ready to drop in cartridges/tanks is really your best route . But please don't give the impression that my kit is shoddy and you've been"victimized" again.

 

[SLR_65]

Hi Mikling,

I haven't been on the forum long so it's nice to meet you.

Ahhh, I see the logic in your choice of screws! It probably also results in a lower overall profile so you probably don't run into the problem of the screw heads hitting the lip of the case when printing a CD either.

I wonder if he just didn't wobble around when he was putting in the screw? I've done that before and I work on mechanical things for a living! Again, I'd try some teflon plumber's tape to see if it wouldn't tighten it up a bit and maybe even help with the seal.

I also concur with your views on the drilling a separate hole / sealing with tape idea . . . you can do it, and it usually works . . . but when it doesn't it makes a MESS in the printer! Been there, done that! 8-< Listen to us, we're trying to save ya time & effort! No need to re-invent the wheel!

If he finds refilling too troublesome but still wants to lower his ink costs then maybe he should also consider the prefilled compatible cartridges? Of course they have draw backs too . . . from what I've read the OEM Canon cartridge is kind of a marvel in engineering and no one else has came close, and he'd still have to wrestle with removing the chip from an OEM cartridge and installing it on the compatible . . . I haven't done it, but that might -fun-! And lastly, when buying compatibles you wouldn't have as much control over what ink was actually in the cartridges. All in all, I think refilling the OEM cartridges is the best idea and it should be within the capabilities of the "average Joe".

Mikling, again, it's nice to meet ya . . . I'll spend some time later this weekend poking around the site and reading the pearls of wisdom you and others have left for us.

CanonVictim - take a deep breath and settle down. This really isn't that hard - I'm sure you'll get it figured out . . . but if you have more questions please ask -> the only bad question is the one that goes unanswered!

Take Care,

Steve

 

[mikling]

The protruded height with the machine screw is about 1/16" of an inch. This pretty much allows it to be used anywhere without clearance issues.

There are pros and cons of the o ring. Orings were not meant to be screwed down as well as rotated at the same time, they will work most of the time but there are instances where distortion and potential non sealing occurs. The other side to that is that if the mating surfaces are not flat i.e the label was torn off or pieces left on, it is possible to have leakage over the edges of the label if the oring does not conform sufficiently. All these aspects were considered in the choice of how sealing is best done.

Like so many things there are pros and cons. Neither is right or wrong just a matter of tradeoffs.

 

[cannonvictim]

Sorry, mikling. I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought your kits were shoddy. I posted a while back that I am ham fisted and was just trying to prove a point. I see why everyone goes to the trouble to get out the ball, but I have a set of drills of all sizes and a tap set in a storage locker since I recently moved. I may just get the taps and redo the original cyan hole. If that doesn't work, I guess I could reseal it with a hot glue gun and drill and tap another hole. I got a little confused by the instruction sheet showing where to put the needle and how to hold the cart. when refilling, too. I thought I should first squirt about 2-3 ml onto the foam on the left side near the bottom; then I put about 3 on top of the top layer of foam while holding the cart. so the top is vertical and letting the ink run down; then I put the last into the cart. about half way down while holding it so ink flowed into the reservoir. It looks like it would be easier just to refill in the ball hole and then put in the screw. Maybe that doesn't work. That is why I said I got confused reading the refill threads on these carts.