Pro-10 blend Precision Colors and OEM

[Ketil Wright]

@websnail: May we restart your treatise?

1. Is there some similarity between your company's pigment ink for the Pro-10 and that from PrecisionColors which I should be aware of? It seems that I read somewhere that there are in fact only a few manufacturers of ink, at least ones worth considering.
2. Can you describe the "compatible cleaning solution" ? On your site you talk about the PGI-9 cartridge (at http://www.octoink.co.uk/kb/questions/180/PGI-9+cartridge+flushing{47}cleaning) where you suggest using distilled water. Elsewhere, you talk about just using ink (at http://www.octoink.co.uk/kb/questions/191/Flushing+Canon+CLI{47}PGI+cartridges+WITHOUT+water). However, on that page, you are talking about the pro-100. I have a pro-10. My understanding is that the pgi9 can be used in the pro-10, provided you bring the chip from the 72 into the 9. Does this similarity extend to the cleaning/flushing procedure?
3. I noticed that your website advertises empty PGI-72 carts, but it wasn't clear whether these were available now. I am hopeful that your last comment is suggesting these as an option. If so, I would like to buy some from you asap. Otherwise, I am considering getting a 2nd full set of OEM carts, in case my 1st refill operation runs awry.
   
4. Apropos of (1), AFAIK, the list of icc files your site provides does not include any of the canon papers. Precision Colors does provide them. I am not sure what to make of that. Is this because they aren't needed with your product (i.e. your ink is closer to OEM)? Because nobody likes canon paper? I've had OK results so far, albeit with OEM ink

@hat:

I wonder if I might summarize my understanding of this thread, any possible misunderstanding of websnail on my part notwithstanding.

1. If I want the most accurate color, I should remove all original OEM ink from the non empty cartridges, prior to migrating to PC and the associated icc profiles.
   
2. I should sacrifice a few ml of PC ink & use it flush each cartridge. I should not flush the cartridges with water.
   
3. Once the whole set of cartridges is empty, I should reset all the chips, refill them and replace all carts at the same time. This minimizes the "feature" of the pixma which draws ink and deposits it in the waste absorber pad.
   
4. Obviously, I should get the correct ink in the correct cart, and be sure each cart is returned to the appropriate slot in the printer.

Thanks again for your patience.

 

[websnail]

May we restart your treatise?

We can but I really wasn't intending to bring any comparisons in just note what we were finding and ensuring it was understood that we were using a different ink so assumptions weren't being drawn.

Is there some similarity between your company's pigment ink for the Pro-10 and that from PrecisionColors which I should be aware of? It seems that I read somewhere that there are in fact only a few manufacturers of ink, at least ones worth considering.

The Pro-10 inks we're using are from Prodinks. No idea if that means they are the same but my guess is that they are from a different supplier

Can you describe the "compatible cleaning solution" ?

We're currently using Image Specialists cleaning solution for Canon inks.

On your site you talk about the PGI-9 cartridge (at http://www.octoink.co.uk/kb/questions/180/) where you suggest using distilled water. Elsewhere, you talk about just using ink (at http://www.octoink.co.uk/kb/questions/191/Flushing+Canon+CLI{47}PGI+cartridges+WITHOUT+water). However, on that page, you are talking about the pro-100. I have a pro-10. My understanding is that the pgi9 can be used in the pro-10, provided you bring the chip from the 72 into the 9. Does this similarity extend to the cleaning/flushing procedure?

Understand the confusion so hopefully I can clarify.

• The PGI-9 inks are Image Specialists inks and when the video for flushing was done it was based on those inks.
• Our PGI-72 inks aren't really all that different but we have noted one ink in particular has a tendancy to gum up the sponge a little over time so flushing with cleaning solution rather than ink was the most effective way to sort it.
• So in terms of documentation I obviously need to do a review and clarify the contradictions and/or differences but hopefully the above provides that on where the differences lie and why I've made the comments I did earlier.
  
• As for PGI-9/72 cross compatiblity, you can, as you say just chip swap and the cartridges will work fine in either printer.

I noticed that your website advertises empty PGI-72 carts, but it wasn't clear whether these were available now. I am hopeful that your last comment is suggesting these as an option. If so, I would like to buy some from you asap. Otherwise, I am considering getting a 2nd full set of OEM carts, in case my 1st refill operation runs awry.

They are available. Know we had a problem with them not showing as available in past but there's plenty of stock.
http://www.octoinkjet.co.uk/products.php?productid=502

Apropos of (1), AFAIK, the list of icc files your site provides does not include any of the canon papers. Precision Colors does provide them. I am not sure what to make of that. Is this because they aren't needed with your product (i.e. your ink is closer to OEM)? Because nobody likes canon paper? I've had OK results so far, albeit with OEM ink

Short version... Time, space and focus... Both Permajet and Fotospeed papers were handled by the respective distributors for us so we cheated a bit. We did do Canon papers but the resulting profiles were spoiled by insufficient patch count and as per the points noted on our site, the glossy papers in particular needed a workaround (ie: GLOP/CO over-coat) to help fix one or two of the inks that don't adhere properly.

So, those are a work in progress but baby and all the usual jobs are getting in the way of getting those done just now.

 

[The Hat]

As far as @websnail's methods go, he does have to cover every angle so his methods uses the belt and braces approach, all of these ways are not necessary but it’s till good to see how they are done anyway, I’m sure he can speak for himself.

1} Now colour accuracy can be achieved fairly quickly after refilling an empty cartridge and won’t be influenced a great deal by the tiny minuscule amount of ink that remains inside an empty cartridge.

2} Which ever method you choose to use, flush or not to flush, I reckon it’s down to the individuals’ preference for true colour reproduction as they see it, I would have no hesitation filling a cartridge immediately after having OEM ink in it previously. (No flushing)

I use soft tap water and a drop of washing up liquid if I even have to flush a non performing cartridge (3 only) which then have worked perfectly ever since, I have refilled hundreds of these cartridges with I.S. ink over the past 6 years.

3} Here is an example of an average on screen ink level monitor, it shows several inks at different levels and two with the low ink symbol on them.

Simulation only


The Matte Black and Photo Magenta are now ready for refilling immediately, but and this is where prudence kicks in to save you on time and money and also your ink pads.

There are four other cartridges that have significant amount of reduced ink levels and it would be wise to simultaneously change each of them at the same time, it costs nothing to do this at this stage and your machine will only do 1 cleaning cycle instead of the usual 6.

4} It’s much better to have all your refill bottles clearly labelled to prevent you from using the wrong ink, but your machine won’t allow a cartridge to be placed in the wrong slot, regardless of it’s contents.

This refilling procedure is only applicable for refillers' and not to someone who has no intention of refilling, they just use the carts till empty.. (Still very wasteful)

 

[palombian]

An feature of the Canon Pro printers is that the flushing is done in 2 channels, A the 5 at left and B at right.
In some cases you can statistically spare some ink (as cleaning the PGBK and colour cartridges separately in the consumer printers).

@Ketil Wright and @websnail : thanks for the accurate questions and the answers .

 

[palombian]

The Pro-10 inks we're using are from Prodinks. No idea if that means they are the same but my guess is that they are from a different supplier

@websnail

My response could seem a bit rude, sorry for that.

Does Prodinks makes it's pigment inks himself ?

 

[The Hat]

@palombian, Prodinks are only a stockist and reseller, they don’t make any of their inks..

 

[PeterBJ]

The website suggests that they manufacture inks and also run a web shop, in my opinion. See this and this or in something similar to English this and this.

 

[The Hat]

That is very interesting, because a little birdie tweeted that they buy in their bulk ink products and they do in fact mix their own inks, does that qualify as manufacturing inks !

If it does then my answer is completely wrong..

 

[PeterBJ]

Maybe one of our German members knows more? I wonder if mixing inks that are already finished qualifies as manufacturing? The inks being mixed might then be classified as raw materials for a production?

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

They claim on their web site that they do development , production and distribution of their inks, but they don't go into any detail of that. I would assume from the description that they do more than buying bulk inks in containers and refill them into end user size bottles. They probably buy the raw materials, the dyes as a very concentrated paste, the solvents and some additives to control the ph value, viscosity, anti fungus , surface tension etc, that shouldn't be a secret how to do that, and they are not the only company doing that. It's all much more a business decision, to know the market and the chance to make some profit with it at the end. Such production is not a sign of a better product quality per se, it depends whether you consider their products good enough for the price you pay , and you set your own requirements like longevity, size of gamut, gloss of pigment inks and pricing , availability etc