Please share experience: Canon Pro9500 MK II and Epson R1900(or R2000)

[Chakonari]

@ The Hat:

Cool, thanks for that. After much more reading, I have also concluded that the only "improvements" the R2000 has over the R1900, are larger carts, built-in WiFi (no need for extra print server) and improved media handling. So actually nothing to shout about. I also don't expect any improvement in print quality, as the other specs appear unchanged.

Espon seems to have added "gimmicks", without actually doing anything about the printing itself. Their support is also very interested in making a sale "just fill out the form below...". Canon has a longer standard warranty - so more pluses for Canon.

However I have now come to another dilemma: If I don't get a spare set of carts with the first purchase, the Epson R3000 falls within my budget (and it has larger cartridges) . Though I should get one black each, due to the switching usage, as I probably would be switching more often in the beginning when getting to know the printer. I don't know how the print costs (with OEM carts) compare to the other two.

 

[The Hat]

ChakonariI don't know how the print costs (with OEM carts) compare to the other two.

The print costs using OEM Canon or Epson inks are the same, w a y to high.
So the sooner you use 3rd party inks the sooner the saving starts..

 

[Chakonari]

...So the sooner you use 3rd party inks the sooner the saving starts..

Agree 100%

 

[jtoolman]

Nothing against Cannon printers, as they are indeed excellent. I am an Epson R1900 and 1400 and here is the main reasons.
For my situation as a photographer, I love the freedom to PRINT whatever and however much I want without having to worry about ink costs. I rather soend my money on great papers.

I use refillable " Damper" style cartridges and the "reset to full" banks of chips offered through Injetcarts.

Refilling carts?? It is done right on the printer. No need to remove them EVER. The new dampers ( really cartriges without chips, the chip set is a separate unit semi permanently attached to the printer's ink bay ) have little " Flapper" doors with O ring seals. Hit the INK button, the ink carriage moves to the change position, open each flapper and inject the corresponding ink till full. Close flappers and click the ink button again. You are DONE!!!!
Rsetting the chips is done only when one color position reads empty, since I refill all tanks every time, they are never really empty. To reset to full wehen one shows as empty you hit the ink button to move the carriage to the new ink cart install position, Push the little reset button on the chip holder, hit the printer's ink button, and ALL positions are brought to full.

If you are using a CISS like I am with the R1900, on first use it starts with ALL 8 positions as full. As one position goes down to EMPTY, you get an error message, keep in mind that you will probably have several others that are just a few prints away from also going empty. When you reset that one single empty position, all the other 7 will also be reset to full.
Result being that you will not resetting positions as each one reads empty. WHich can be quite often if you print as much as I do. I had a system like that and it was the biggest pain in the *** I've ever experienced. Just as bad as having to physically change one cartridge at a time as you would have to do with individual refillable cartridges.

Also from what I have been told and reseached, CISS untis do not work very well on most Canon printers. The seals at on the ink cart carriages apparently cannot withstand the pressures developed in a CISS. That's why you don't see very many of them being offered. The few that do exist require you to install supplemetary seals for each cart of the CISS.

Any way that's is just one personal opinion.

Taka care and good luck!

 

[Chakonari]

I had been leaning towards the Canon, but...

I have sample prints made with the iPF8000 (Lucia ink like the Pro9500) on canvas, which are not smudge resistant and I though that this may be an issue which was related to using canvas.

Canon lists "picture postcard" as media that cannot be used. However I wish to print and sell postcards in small quantities as well.

So I wrote to their support.
<rant>
First answer was that IPFs are business printers and the two couldn't be compared. So I guess Canon is saying that the Pixma Pro9500 MK II is not of professional quality. My thought was that as both use Lucia ink, the smudge/water resistance would be the same.

Second answer "Please download the manual for other specs". I did that a few weeks ago (have the manuals for several printers) and just wanted them to confirm if it's really not possible to print high quality postcards with the printer.

Having worked in international support from answering the phone and e-mails to managing support operations, I am aware that all it takes to lose a customer is a wrong answer form one person in support, so I've written again to try and explain what I wanted confirmed. "Go download and read the manual" is certainly not how I would treat a potential buyer with simple questions - it's not like I asked them how to change carts or use 3rd party ink.

Whilst Epson's support is also more sales oriented, I received quick and complete replies to my questions via e-mail and was also happy with their support via online chat.
</rant>

@ jtoolman Thanks for your post. I guess that someone will make usable a CIS for the R2000 soon. Question: Can you print mailable postcards with your R1900? (If yes the R2000 should b eable to do it too)

 

[jtoolman]

Chakonari, it just so happens that I DO print lots of post card, notecard and greeting cards that I sell locally through a small high end chain that I will not directly mention, except the ancient "Egyptians" invented it!!!!!

I use Red River's greeting card stock and envelopes exclusively!
Low cost and superb quality.

http://www.redrivercatalog.com/cardshop/index.htm

I use the R1900 with the CISS for all matte and textured art card stock and the 1400 dye based ( UV resistant ink from Inkjectcarts ) for all my glossy card sets.

Ross Hardie from Inkjectcarts will have refillables and CISS for both of Epson's newer printers, the R2000 and R3000

I will more than like get the R3000 the minute a second quality source to OEM inks is available.

If you think you can get by without a good quality CISS, think again. It's one of those accessories that once you have it you wonder how you live without it. Once you absorb the initial costs for the CISS unit and the first batch of ink to fill the unit, you're going to be cotting your ink costs by 90 to 95%.

You spoke about customer service? Ross Hardie is #1 in my book. Anything you need answered and he's there for you. Another great company of course is Precision Colors and Mike can be found here in this forum!

 

[The Hat]

jtoolman If you think you can get by without a good quality CISS, think again. It's one of those accessories that once you have it you wonder how you live without it. Once you absorb the initial costs for the CISS unit and the first batch of ink to fill the unit, you're going to be cotting your ink costs by 90 to 95%.

A CISS unit can work perfectly fine and be a great asset to have on a printer but it is not for most guys.
Unless you print dozens of sheets a day they can become a real pain in the butt.
Refilling OEM cartridges are as cost effective in most cases as a CISS and can beat a CISS hands down on relilability every time..

 

[jtoolman]

The Hat, I can only speak from my experience. My CISS has NOT given me an ounce of trouble in fact I installed it on my brand new R1900 which it's a no-no according to many. It is reliable as can be and only have to reset every once in a while. Not a single instance of any clogging by the way! Beats refilling cartridges every week. I guess I do print a lot more than most folks. Even when I refill, which is what I do on my 1400 the carts are a dream to refill. Just a little flapper and O ring. No plugs no drillig holes! Anyway I appeared that the OP would probably be printing quite a few cards and a CISS would make sense, but again I am partial to them. And oh yes, I am not trying to say the OP to Epson.

 

[The Hat]

jtoolman

jtoolman If you think you can get by without a good quality CISS, think again. It's one of those accessories that once you have it you wonder how you live without it. Once you absorb the initial costs for the CISS unit and the first batch of ink to fill the unit, you're going to be cotting your ink costs by 90 to 95%.

The Hat, I can only speak from my experience. My CISS has NOT given me an ounce of trouble in fact I installed it on my brand new R1900 which it's a no-no according to many

Its nice to hear of your success regarding your CISS working the way it should do.
However I use CISS on my printers too but wouldnt promote them to everybody without issuing a cautionary warning
about their use and would also advise them to stick with refilling their OEM cartridges as a better choice instead.

I regard the use of Ciss units to be strictly for the brave and the few but not for the many,
as there are so many guy hanging onto every word that is printed here and ready
to follow it to the letter regardless as to its factual content or just hear say.
Happy Printing everyone..

 

[Chakonari]

OK, let me see if I got this(includes things I hope to remember correctly from other threads) - does not apply to all Canon/Epson models:

- The Canon OEM carts can be refilled with a drip method. (Remove carts, turn upside-down, drip away...)
- The Epson carts have to be replaced. (After the first filling, the carts can be refilled whilst still in the printer if not run empty)
- Both methods are simple and have their own advantages/disadvantages, but both get the carts filled and make printing much cheaper.
- CISS: "Easy" with Epson(will probably especially easy with the R2000 and R3000) and difficult with Canon. Requires more aptitude than refilling.
- Canon and Epson require chip resetting (The different options are more than fits in one sentence).
- Canon does not display ink levels after refilling.
- There are more sources for compatible inks for Epson's Ultrachrome K3 Vivid Magenta than for Canon's Lucia. Qualities vary.
- There are no refill kits available for the R2000 and R3000 yet.

So what about the ink levels?

Is it correct that ink levels on refilled Canons always show as empty, i.e the ink level monitor no longer works? Do I have to estimate when I need to refill or wait until I see that the ink is running out during printing to know when to refill? What about the ink levels for refilled carts on the Epson?

I'm really tempted to get an R3000, but the fact that an average of nearly 8% of a full cartridge of ink gets wasted when switching between matte(3ml loss) and photo(1 ml loss) black is scary. According to the manual, there is an economy mode switching option that uses less ink, but can result in uneven gloss. Wasn't able to find how much ink gets used in this mode.

Perhaps get an extra matte and photo black cart along with the printer and hope refills for the R3000 become available before I run out of ink. "Users don't want to manually switch carts - ok, we'll let the printer do it for them, but still suck them dry". If only Epson had worked that out, then the R3000 would be a no-brainer for me.

In any case, I'm pulling the trigger on a printer by the end of the week.

EDIT: I'm off to learn about colour management now ...and pray that I can achieve acceptable results without calibration gadgets or find someone to borrow from.