Pigment printers for Giclee printing

[The Hat]

Ah yes, the Pro-100 is pigment black, i got it mixed up.

Nope, sorry the Pro 100 has no pigment ink in it whatsoever, only dye..

 

[pixelhero]

Ah well, either way

Looking at the following options then:
Canon Pro 10S - New £500
Epson SureColor P400 - New £450
Canon Pro 9500 Mk 2 - £100-300 second hand (if one comes up closer to me)
Epson Stylus R3000 - £200 second hand (One available very close to me)
Epson Stylus R2000 - £100ish second hand
Epson Stylus R2880 - £200ish second hand
Epson Pro 3880 - £350 second hand

I have no idea how old the Stylus ones are, or if its better to just spend £250 more on the 10S pr P400.

The interesting ones are the 3880 and the Pro 9500, but are they likely to be trusted second hand?

There is always the Workforce ones, but assume they're far from as good as the above ones?

 

[The Hat]

I have both, a Pro 9500 bought new in 2009, and one bought second hand from Holland, thanks to a very good member and friend on this forum, and there is no difference in either.

The reason I have two is because I find them both exceptionally good printers, The Pro 10 would be my second choice because it’s a near clone of the 9500, refilling is so ridiculously easy, and that means really easy, with both these machine models...

 

[RogerB]

When you look at the Canon models make sure you are happy with the margin limitations when using fine art paper.

 

[pixelhero]

Thanks for that, I did see a review that showed it required 30mm margins on fine art paper, it was my preferred choice until then as it does mean losing some size from cutting down for borderless images.

The second hand models I mentioned, are are of them too old to be worth getting now? The R3000 seems like a good option for the price and the Pro 9500, are the 2000 and 2880 older (I assume the R3000 is better than those 2 as well?)

The 3880 is the only one that prints bigger than A3+ isnt it? That would be nice

Sorry for the questions, really new to this and want to get something decent without risking too much money - I know you get what you pay for, but this would be a starter printer for printing art prints so don't really need something too pricey, so long as it can do decent pigment ink prints and on as big a size as possible, if it has a roller too that would be good. Its hard to find details of the past models though

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

newer printer models are not generally 'better' than the previous models, they might differ in a different housing , or with or w/o WLAN, display, a new inkset like Ultrachrome K3 vs. HD and some other variations which may be important to you or not. As soon as you start using refill you could use newer inks in older printers. And the support for refill - inks, cartridges etc is better for already established models than for new printer models. Inks, cartridges, service will be available for years to come, that alone should not be a purchasing decision. You may get a good sales out discount price , or prices for phased out printers are even going up in case refill options for a new model are not available yet and take their time.

 

[pixelhero]

Let me know if I am wrong here, but trying to narrow these down:
R2000 - smallest droplet size, less inks, takes rolls
R2880 - takes rolls, more inks. No benefit over R3000 and same price secondhand
R3000 - smaller droplet size (not quite R2000), more inks though, good ink capacity.
Pro 3880 - Lower DPI (not sure it matters at size?), huge ink capacity, A2, £150 more than the above, no rolls, big droplet size
P400 - smallest droplet size, less inks, takes rolls (absolutely no benefit over the R2000. Just the fact it would be new not secondhand and cost £300 more for that)
Pro 9500 MkII - Hear a lot about Canon's using lots more ink for cleaning, more inks, no roll paper. Can't see any benefit over the R3000 from a specification point of view
Pro 10S - As above, but bigger droplet size, like the P400 see no point spending £300 more for the same printer just to get it new as a first printer.

This leaves me with the following options I think, considering this is a first printer and the extra cost to get the new models does seem like money for nothing (or maybe wifi i wont use):

Epson R2000 - £100-200
Epson R3000 - £200-300 (Probably worth the extra £100)
Epson Pro 3880 - £300-400 (purely an option if I decide the A2+ size is important)
Canon 9500 MK2 - £200-300 (Is it more costly to run than the R3000? See no other real benefit since it doesn't do borderless fine art)

Is the R3000 a decent printer, and how does it compare to the 9500 and R2000?

I am a very research driven buyer of things like this and want to be sure I've got the best for my money - sorry

Just a reminder, this will be purely for Fine Art, a similar style to this: http://www.artrepublic.com/artists/1138-the-thomas-brothers.html just a shame I can't afford an A1 printer.

 

[The Hat]

newer printer models are not generally 'better' than the previous models. As soon as you start using refill you could use newer inks in older printers. And the support for refill - inks, cartridges etc is better for already established models than for new printer models. Inks, cartridges, service will be available for years to come,

Just reading you wish list makes me think your biting off more that you can chews here when you’re only starting out, firstly the 9500 II doesn’t waste excessive amounts of ink and it seldom clogs up if ever, and that’s not hear say.

As for the 30mm border on fine art paper, well that is only optional and can be corrected easily, and the big plus, it will print A3 + borderless also, but fine art prints don’t look nearly as good when printed borderless.

The refill market is well established for the 9500 II and ease of refilling is second to none, this printer is perfect for someone starting out because it doesn’t have a hidden spectre that is likely to catch you out.

Please don’t prejudge any printer on the size of the ink droplets produced, that’s just others being paranoid about something not worth talking about it, no matter which printer you decide to purchase, droplet size is just a misnomer.

All printers will use much the same amount of ink on any given size sheet you wish to use, and when you switch to refilling that will never come into the equation again, most of the Epson’s use a system of switching out the PK and MK black inks, now that tends to get ignored when choosing one of their models, no Canon does that.

In the fine art world, A1 and A2 prints are a rarity, the trend is more in the A3 market and that’s where you should be aiming at, how many customers will have the wall space for very large prints, but A3 prints can be made to fit in just about any room..

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

The 3880 is the only one that prints bigger than A3+ isnt it? That would be nice

There are plenty of large format printer models above the 3880, that is just the lowest entry point for a 17" model, there are the Pro 4900, 6800, etc and a wide range of Surecolor printers not fitting in your room anymore. Getting a used printer can be an option, but you should be able to get some information about the printers - e.g. usage, service history, a recent nozzle check without gaps.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

P400 - smallest droplet size

don't get hung up just on single parameters, colors are dithered within a printed dot, with various droplet sizes of different inks, you'll see that the R2000/P400 don't come with light inks, the R3000 does, bigger droplets with lighter inks are probably as (in)visible as smaller droplets of the base color to render a light color tone. It does not make any difference in terms of actual print resolution, prints with my old Pro7600 - 4pl - are as sharp as with the R265 or L800 - 1.5pl with light inks. Epson can modulate the droplet size in their piezo ink channels, Canon printheads have separate nozzle rows for different nozzle sizes. You can easily imagine that the overall mechanical construction of the printer is relevant as well for the accurate placement of all those drops - millions of them