Photos too dark

[Celso]

Dear All,

Once again I rely on your help. I know that the question below has been asked many times, but I cannot figure out how to solve it.

I own a MX721 printer. Recently, I purchased ColorMunki Photo (CMP).

I profiled the monitor in advance mode of CMP. The spectrometer measure the light of room, the contrast, the brightness, colors, etc. using white point D65. Based on the test made it created a profile for my display.

Next, I profiled the printer. I am using Inktec and Canon Glossy Plus II photo paper. In the driver setting I selected Canon paper glossy plus II. I also selected color management manual and put it to none. I made it in order to assure that the driver would not impact the targets. Next I made the two targets, tested than with the CMP and created a profile for the printer.

Finally, I printed a sample using a photo of a flower. I used Lightroom 6. In Lightroom I selected the profile created and the printing mode perceptual. I also checked through the Lightroom 6 whether the driver settings had been changed to see if it was still marked manual color management and none. By doing it I tried to assure that the driver would not impact the prints. Only Lightroom would make the color management.

Problem is that the prints came noticeably darker than the picture at the monitor. I know that the way in which the light is perceived by us varies if it is made from a monitor and a print.

I also know that in Lightroom I can manually adjust brigthness and contrast. However, after buying a very expensive equipment and heard many good comments about it I expected much better results than the ones that I am getting. Photos from the printer are much darker than the photos in the monitor.

Please, help. Ideas?

Thanks.

 

[Roy Sletcher]

Briefly,

Just running the software does NOT guarantee a good profile. There are many variables and "moving parts", but you are on the right track.

Next step is to print a standardized test image of known value and colour integrity for reference

There are many different versions, and the link below points to my preference as it also comes with a descriptive PDF file.

Print it exactly as supplied WITHOUT ANY TONAL ADJUSTMENT but using your paper and profile of choice.

Basically:
IF the image looks good on your monitor, but prints bad you have a printer/profile/paper mismatch.
IF the image prints well but looks bad on your monitor your display profile or monitor calibration is defective.

There is a lot more to it, but this wil get you on the right track. Report back with your findings and I am sure others more knowledgeable will help with the trouble shooting.

Link below
http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi048/essay.html

Goof luck - We are on your side and want to help.

RS

PS - It is a given that you have a good solid nozzle check before you started!

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

there is one other parameter to consider - the brightness of the viewing situation - monitor and paper output don't know of each other, you as well could say that the monitor is much brighter than the printout. You should judge your printout under a viewing condition, a brightness which comes close to the monitor brightness, the whites of the monitor and the paper should be somewhat similar, that requires some more light in your room than it might be typical. To avoid the variability of the room illumination professionals use a light box with simulated daylight in which printouts are viewed. You can change as well the Gamma of the monitor such that you get closer to the look of your printouts. And you might test with a white point of D50 or D55 which might shift the color balance slightly.

 

[Celso]

Thank you for your help.

The marketing of ColorMunki suggests that it would be an easy task to match the printer and monitor...

Anyway, I have been trying many alternatives. However I have not succeed yet to get the brightness match (i.e., between the monitor and the prints). I am almost there but ... never there...

After many many profiles and prints I am now using the photo sample appointed by Roy. Printed it and compared against the screen. Both look nice.

I am using D50 white point now to profile the monitor, as suggested by Ink Stained Fingers. I prefer it to the D65 white point (at least in the room where I have the printer and the computer). D50 white point, however, makes my monitor yellowish, but I can live with that...

My last adjustment was made in Lightroom. I am soft proofing and increasing half up to one stop the exposure to get a better result.

Ideas?

Do you guys get a precise match in your workflow? I know that this a very specialized work that demands a lot of experience, but wondering about your views.

Thanks.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

you raised a simple question why prints look darker than the images on the monitor - but the explanations are more complex , they touch some basics of color management.
A monitor and a printer are both output devices for colored images, they don't know of each other . You could turn the question around and ask why the images are much brighter than on paper, and you get somewhat closer to the answer. What does profiling do in this situation - the profiling process measures the deviations of colors - on the screen or on paper - vs. a standardized level , it finds this way as well the limits of the device - those (saturated) colors which cannot be differentiated anymore - this is the color space, the gamut of the device, the profiling process measures as well the white point and the black point, and creates a correction table with all that data. The aim is a standardized color output. The profiling process, the measurements are pure relative - white point vs. black point which defines the contrast of the target, the profiling process does not care whether to look to your printout under sunlight or candlelight, the ratios remain the same, but the look is completely different. Just do a little experiment - don't think the print should look like the image on the screen, just try the opposite - attach a printout to your monitor and turn the brightness such that the white points - paper white vs. white parts in the image on the monitor - look similar. That's not just the same as the proof function in PS which still works with the monitor brightness. And you recognize immediatly that this suddenly depends very much on your surrounding light, a variable you don't consider when you look onto your screen , and you don't include into your work when you just use the proof function.
And then we need to discuss some additional factors, the contrast on a monitor is in the range of 1:300 to 1:1000, between 6 to 8 or more f-stops in photografic terms, the contrast on a good photo paper is 1:20 - about 4 f-stops , lots of details in the darker range are lost, or almost if you look up the function of 'Black point compensation' in context with the rendering intentions.
And when using a proof function you should understand what happens with colors either/and/or outside the gamut of the monitor and the gamut of the paper, the color spaces of monitor and printer don't overlap completely, a printer may show colors which are not available on the screen at all .
I do the typical image adjustments on the screen, color balance, contrast, horizon etc, and use a separate program for printing - Qimage which let me make adjustments just for the printout, not only layout things.
I consider the typical light conditions for a poster -e.g. for and with kids at daylight and adults at the evening at a sports club, and I use a different gamma just for the printouts to fit them into the typical viewing conditions. Some images are placed opposite to a window, with lots of light and others are in a dark corner - just printing with a different gamma makes it simple to compensate for that.
The D50, D55 etc white balance is a separate parameter of the viewing conditions, it is typically a compromise value you choose unless you know that you need to compensate for fluorescent or other special light conditions solely.

 

[The Hat]

Thank you @Ink stained Fingers, very much for your straight forward, easy and honest answer, it was so easy to understand and very educational, it even makes me wish I’d got into photo printing...

It certainly turned my head, because your coming at it from a completely different angle altogether which properly wouldn’t occur to most others...

It’s probably the best answer I’ve ever heard on the subject of, “my prints are too dark” syndrome...

 

[Roy Sletcher]

Thank you @Ink stained Fingers, very much for your straight forward, easy and honest answer, it was so easy to understand and very educational, it even makes me wish I’d got into photo printing...

It certainly turned my head, because your coming at it from a completely different angle altogether which properly wouldn’t occur to most others...

It’s probably the best answer I’ve ever subject of, “my prints are too dark” syndrome...

I concur with the above comment. I consider myself "somewhat" aware of the issue and think "Ink Stained Fingers" gives one of the best succinct yet comprehensive explanations of monitor printer matching issue. Very instructive and very well done!

I conducted a workshop on Basic Printing at our camera club a few weeks ago and wish I could have used his text for my explanation of this issue - so much better than what I came up with.

rs

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

Thanks all for the positive comments, I learned it as well the hard way, with lots of testing, reading and trying this and that. It's actually not a really complex workflow to separate the image editing and printing processes, and to make the necessary adjustments here or there. I assume that we all don't depend on further printing industry type standards and requirements which would require some different steps. And it's at the end the visual impression which counts - perception is all there is. You need calibrated tools for your work, for repeatability, but do your final adjustments as you think they are necessary.