Papers to minimise fade with aftermarket dye inks.

[peter D]

The most practical way would be that BaoDing would start sales via Aliexpress for smaller, end-user oriented
volumes or a European ink/consumables shop would be interested but I'm afraid that an overall small business volume would result in some non-attractive pricing.

As regards freight of Baoding Giant Image swellable papers so far I can only offer this explanation based on what has happened in my case.
The papers have arrived courtesy of DHL Express door to door service. The papckage weight was 9.2 Kgm for 2 rolls 0.610 metres wide and 30 metres long, not the 12 kgm originally estimated.
The condition of the paper is not 100% perfect, more like 98% due to compression of the packaging at both ends probably caused by tight packing of the freight in among the luggage of a passenger aircraft either on the way from Beijing to Hong Kong or from HK to Auckland New Zealand ie .the package is slid in until in until slams against something. This compression shatters the plastic "spider" that is used to suspend the roll inside its individual cardboard box, two of which were just wrapped together side by side with clear plastic wrapping film so that the delivery label on each box can be read thru the plastic wrap.
What I'm on about is that the packing of what the company considers to be samples is just barely adequate for transport by a premium courier service over long distances. I wouldn't select sea shipping options for something packaged this lightly.
My conclusion is if the company ships a normal order rather than just a sample it would likely have a proper crate in stock that protects say 10 boxed rolls or more that could withstand the rigors of being handled by containerized shipping.

If Baoding Giant Image were to supply a much smaller Chinese dealer who was prepared to properly crate and freight using Aliexpress then I totally agree with your assessment.

I've yet to receive the invoice from my logistics company even though the goods were delivered early on Monday morning NZ time so I can't enlighten folks as to the final freight costs as yet.

 

[peter D]

Some insight into the complexity of testing and judging the effects of optical brighteners - OBAs - is presented here

http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/optical-brighteners-obas/

Thank you very much for sharing this article, it certainly goes into the issue in depth.

I particularly liked the image of an old "Adams" print showing the OBA's still working after all these years, evidently with protection from UV they can be archived to an extent. There is definitely a warning there even for those using pigment inks, that there will be a shift that comes along with OBA's exposed to UV that effects not only the colour of the paper but the color response of the inks themselves.
My approach might come down to viewing a finished print in sunlight (or perhaps my Solux 4700K bulb) with and without a UV blocking glazing sheet and then making a special display print to try and compensate for the missing OBA effect.
I protect 95% + of my prints from UV light anyway and don't intend to sell any of my prints without a fade and display glazing caveat.

 

[GaryJay]

Hahnemuhle Protective Spray is very good.

 

[palombian]

"You have to use pigment inks for fade durability."
My argument on this issue is simple, Canon recoqnised that dye printers have their place and introduced a special inkset for them that minimized fade however that inset for the Pro100 is expensive and for those of us that are refilling there are other options such as the swellable papers and precautions around UV exposure.

I produce only prints for my own use these days and most of them go into an album or are otherwise stored in boxes away from exposure to light. Those that are on display can be framed and the framing glazed with Pexiglas Gallery a product that cuts 99.y % of the UV light. There are also UV barrier sprays but I can't comment yet on their efficacy.
The main contributor to fade with dye inks is atmospheric exposure and this is certainly very well mitigated by the use of swellable papers.

Although I switched to pigment also for fade resistance dye has some advantages:

- much more affordable printers
- good quality 3th party ink also far cheaper than pigment, more manufacturers available
- high gamut glossy prints without gloss difference

OTH, if this is annihilated by the cost of the (swellable) paper and/or the protection measures (special framing, protection spray), why (re)consider dye ?

In general, pigment printers are better built, have more inks and produce higher quality prints.

 

[PalaDolphin]

Following...

 

[peter D]

Here is the paper dispenser that I finished building today for the Giant Image 610mm wide rolls of swellable paper. In the foreground is my almost antique mat board cutter which I'm using as a squaring device and cutter. A cut piece is lying on the right.
As the rolls are wound with the printing surface outermost I've used a cream coloured sheet of drawing paper to protect the printing paper from damage imparted by the metal surfaces of the cutter.
I'm aiming for A3+ size pieces with two 5X7's on the edge so I'm cutting 14 inch long pieces off the roll. and then cutting the A3+ piece with a guillotine leaving a 19 X1 inch waste strip.

The roll holder/dispenser is fabricated from melamine coated particle board (Custom Wood) with the circular ends being edged with Formica laminate. The central mandrels are PVC 40mm female thread adapter waste pipe fittings which fit firmly into the roll tube at each end and with 15mm thick end discs they still leave a 2mm ledge on the roll side to allow the paper to clear the discs which are also tapered near the edges on the inside surfaces. The bearing pads are standard furniture gliders.
My apologies for the annoying reflection of the PVC fitting in the glossy surface of roll end disc nearest the camera.

The next part of the project is to follow the roll holder with a double roller paper un-curler prior to cutting which should will be useful especially as the roll diameter starts to diminish.

I'm happy to provide more fabrication information on the roll holder but you will of course need a few power tools like a router, small circle cutter set and maybe a drill press.

 

[The Hat]

I'm happy to provide more fabrication information on the roll holder but you will of course need a few power tools like a router, small circle cutter set and maybe a drill press.

Or a 3D printer...

 

[peter D]

Or a 3D printer...

Good idea ! A 3D printer would be ideal to fabricate the end discs.
For anyone contemplating this just ask and I'll pass on what I've learnt from this prototype.
So far I can confirm that the inner faces of the discs should be high gloss and tapered at the outer edge and also separated from the roll tube end by a couple of mm to prevent the paper edge rubbing as it is comes off the roll. The outer edges of the discs need to be hard and preferably like stipple finish bench top laminate as this will yield the minimum "sticktion" at the contact area of the plastic gliders (ideally Teflon pads).

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

Let me give you an update after 15 weeks with the swellable papers in the current no-sun outside environment - these papers don't let even rather cheap dye inks fade - there is no measurable change so far on the patches , a set of patches running in parallel for comparison - same inks - on the Aldi/Netbit glossy paper with 1x GO now starts showing first changes of fading - not bad for a L300 like dye ink set on a budget photo paper. As shown in another thread a 2xGO may even top that performance somewhat, these inks on the Netbit paper without GO just changed their look and are drifting away - black to light brown - blue to light blue etc - such prints would be useless under these conditions - an overall lightness increase of 100 vs. +4 with 1xGO and 0 on the swellable papers.
Some of the optical brighteners are gone in the swellable papers during this test as visible with a UV lamp, I cannot observe a color change of the paper white yet at this time.
Since this test gets boring - no changes - I'm closing it now. Be aware these tests don't show at this time the impact of any stronger UV/sun radiation which may make a difference and keep in mind that these materials - inks and papers - are not made for outside use anyway.

 

[peter D]

Here's an update of the DHL freight costs for two 0.610 m X 30 m rolls of Baoding Giant Image swellable paper to New Zealand.

The logistics company finally sent me an invoice for NZ$192 (about US$135) for the freight and insurance of a 9.2 kgm parcel (volumetric weight was lower) including insurance of NZ$45. This was higher than what I was quoted but after persistent questioning on my part they admitted they had paid DHL somewhat more than this ie. they had made a loss on the deal.

This indicates to me that the importation of a small number of rolls is fraught with problems because of the factors I've mentioned earlier, namely the supplier's reluctance to properly package small quantities for long distance airfreight would very likely result in roll damage if the same packaging standard was used for rolls sent by sea freight.
Even using a premium door to door service like DHL the damage to the packing around one of the rolls was almost enough to trigger an insurance claim.