Papers to minimise fade with aftermarket dye inks.

[mikling]

I'm actually taking quite a lot of luminance readings via the histogram function for the CMYK color patches and could do lots of things - graphs, plots whatever - per color or cumulated and all that but this does not change the essence of this test - these swellable papers provide an excellent fade protection to an ink which just performs pretty poor (or should I say even average for a refill ink) on typical microporus papers.
The difficult supply situation of such papers - ease of availability and moderate pricing - makes it currently impossible to use such papers for a wider user base.

This is the very point one that I tried to emphasize early on in your testing, that the ink chosen was shown to be a weaker sample, yet it held up extremely well with swellable paper and this is a testament to what we are looking at here.
The scale of differences is also not to be ignored as well, If I am reading your results correctly, even when the Dl inks are starting to show weakness, the poor ink sample with the swellable is still soldiering on!
Swellable papers need to be brought back into the market again by someone!

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

that the ink chosen was shown to be a weaker sample, yet it held up extremely well with swellable paper and this is a testament to what we are looking at here.

yes - intentionally - to keep the test going and not to wait for too long for some results, an indication of a trend. The black ink is a mix of the L300 black and some other comparably weak inks, and the CMY inks are of a similar kind. I'm running one color set with a GO overprint to see how much that can impact the fading of these inks under the same conditions , I guess some numbers are more solid and out of the noise in 4 weeks. I wouldn't like to do all that fancy stuff of error propagation of readings with tolerances, statistics, scanner calibration, warm up drift and all that.
And there is another effect during this test, the inks on the swellable papers were actually dropping their luminance, getting slightly darker - most likely an impact of the extended exposure to the humid environment, the DL inks were just getting slightly darker, not as much as the inks on the swellable papers. I let the patches dry for about an hour or two before I scanned them and placed them back. That may not let the swellable papers dry completely , they even may need a day but I wouldn't want to wait that long. The L300 black was over that little dip within a few days. And a typical indoor environment will definitely not cause similar effects.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

Swellable papers need to be brought back into the market again by someone!

Information about the specific performance of such swellable papers would need to be made public - with articles in magazines etc and the supply would need to be arranged .
But when I'm reading magazines - photo type magazines - the performance etc of printers are not much of any interest, and even less the characteristics of particular paper types. And magazines more oriented to professional users like 'Fineartprinting' and similar are getting quite esoteric when they describe a particular new paper type of brand X but don't mention much of technical data e.g. the black level - Dmax whatever scale you use, no mentioning of the achievable gamut on an Epson or Canon printer, nothing about fade resistance and some more. So I'm just sceptical that it would be possible to spread information about swellable papers - some may just consider it as a nostalgic revival of a long gone paper type without much benefit.

 

[mikling]

The world in reality has moved to pigment ink. When you consider what the results of printers like the Pro-1000 can achieve, it is no wonder why.

 

[The Hat]

I hate to say this, but here goes anyway, Photographers who display or sell their work wound want to be flaming mad to contemplate using 3rd party inks in their Pro 1000, I reckon to go to all these expensive lengths and then fall at the last fence, is just nuts.
Everyone to their own, I suppose...

 

[mikling]

Hat, you haven't caught up with the kind of inks I am now shipping and the lengths I go through to make it happen.
You'd be shocked at what the Pro-1 can now put out with the current kits I have. Shocked relative to what your Pro-1 is currently outputting and I really mean it.

http://www.precisioncolors.com/Pro-1000instruct.html

Pay attention to the proof of the pudding in the last row of videos the part 2.

 

[The Hat]

Mike your missing my point completely, yes, your inks are good and that’s why, so many guys use them, and I happily include myself amongst them.

I was specially referring to the Pro 1000, that machine is only for high end users and the last thing they should be thinking about is saving money on alternative inks, they are getting well paid for their work, so why risk compromising on quality...

 

[peter D]

It's now 8 weeks that I keep the swellable paper samples outside for a fade test, despite some adverse weather conditions
View attachment 6543
- they are performing exceptionally well - no fading measurable on all 3 paper samples - glossy - silk - pearl.
I don't really need to show again how the black ink changed over to a light brown at this time on a regular microporous paper - the same ink which does not fade at all so far on these swellable papers. A sample with the Fujifilm DL inks running in this same test starts showing the first signs of fading now - just measurable and above measurement noise but not visible yet. I'll give this test another 4 weeks and then put the patches away for a summer/UV test to test them for radiation resilience.

I'm getting similar results at the start of summer here in the antipodes.
The microporous Canon Plus Semigloss prints are still fading but the prints on Swellable papers are holding up quite well with the Baoding Giant Image papers a fraction ahead of the the HP so far. Over a month into the trial there are discernible differences comparing between Giant Image swellable prints where exposure to light has been restricted or eliminated and those that just have exposure to the atmosphere. Where these prints have been shielded from light the greys are colder ie. have less of a yellow tint.

My impression so far is the main fading is where blacks (and possibly greys) are added to the colours because the intensity of the colour swatches is still pretty good it is where the colours are darkened by the addition of blacks in the test image that the fading is most apparent.
Unfortunately with the doors open on both sides of my lounge to direct a sea breeze through, one print made on Canon Semigloss that had been over sprayed with Helmar art fixative has gone AWOL and I'll have the MP's out this morning conducting a sweep of the surrounding countryside (our front garden) to try and locate the deserter.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

Yes, I have the same impression that black inks face the biggest challenge, they have to catch the most photons - from blue to red. I hope you can catch the defector....

 

[peter D]

I'm actually taking quite a lot of luminance readings via the histogram function for the CMYK color patches and could do lots of things - graphs, plots whatever - per color or cumulated and all that but this does not change the essence of this test - these swellable papers provide an excellent fade protection to an ink which just performs pretty poor (or should I say even average for a refill ink) on typical microporus papers.
The difficult supply situation of such papers - ease of availability and moderate pricing - makes it currently impossible to use such papers for a wider user base.

I'm able to report, perhaps prematurely, that I seem to have found a local (New Zealand based) freight forwarder who will provide a door to door courier (Air) service between Baoding China and my residential address for about half the cost of China Post which was the least expensive of the options offered earlier by Giant Image. It is possible there are even more competitive
Chinese freight firms out there but I'm plugging for reliability (and communication options) over price at this stage.
The weight of the package is high compared to weight of the paper on each roll but it could be that the roll formers are a heavy duty type for commercial use and the packaging itself is extra robust, however I'm of the opinion that rolls are the way to go to minimize damage to the paper in transit.
I'll post updates about success or otherwise of this importing venture as it happens.