Paper / Printer profiling with ArgyllCms and EFI ES 1000 for a newbie

[Ink stained Fingers]

Yes, the i1Pro comes with a board to aid you when scanning, and there is a spring loaded clamp at the top to hold the patch sheet. I could assume that EFI supplies the spectro kit with the ES-1000 as well with such scanning board. It could possibly be available via Ebay etc as a spare or backup as well.

 

[mavtop]

But do you think i have to read in this way for sure, or i can rotate the EFI ES 1000 to read in the other way like the ColorMunky ?
Anyway i think the original board is designed for the Xrite patch scheme and dimensions so i don't know if it will work with ArgyllCms patch system and dimensions.
Anyway i will have to understand how to build a ruler and if i can read the strips with no problem.
I printed 3 profiles, with 870-900-930 patches from a laser printer of my office, just to discover if i can read without problems these strips, if i will succed i will print on my Epson XP 15000 borderless A4 and i will scan the patches, i will begin with a Matte paper unknown then i will move to the Epson Premium Semigloss, to see if i can make a better profile of the default one (some people refer that the canned profiles have a -10/15% less on gamut to keep the ink/printer production inconsistency), i suspect that i will know it when i will verify.
Someone know a Gamutviewer free for mac ? Gamutviewer runs on Mac but on a Windows Virtual Machine, i would like to have some native Mac app.
Do you know if argyllcms can be used with a canned profile to generate a new patch chart starting from that profile ?
This would help the calibration, because it doesn't start from scratch.
The devive wasn't delivered yesterday (i was out when the courier brought to me), today maybe i will get it (so i hope).
thanks again for your time.
mavtop

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

But do you think i have to read in this way for sure, or i can rotate the EFI ES 1000 to read in the other way like the ColorMunky ?

You can rotate the target sheet instead.

Anyway i think the original board is designed for the Xrite patch scheme and dimensions so i don't know if it will work with ArgyllCms patch system and dimensions.

The board is purely mechanical , there is no link to Xrite schemes or dimensions

(some people refer that the canned profiles have a -10/15% less on gamut

some people ? who ? Do you have a link ? Such general statements are pretty meaningless

I'm running on Win 10 and cannot help with Mac software

 

[stratman]

@mavtop

Your ArgyllCMS questions would be better serviced in the forums https://www.argyllcms.com/ recommends for user help.

 

[mavtop]

You can rotate the target sheet instead.

that i mean is, may i use the device to scan parallel to the rows instead of perpendicular with the row (like showed in your image, the device scan perpendicular to the row of patches) ?

The board is purely mechanical , there is no link to Xrite schemes or dimensions

but if i print with smaller patches i can have problems ? Anyway i don't have the board so i have to build some ruler

some people ? who ? Do you have a link ? Such general statements are pretty meaningless

jose rodriguez a "guru" of printers (it has dozens of them, from entry level up to top level) affirms that usually from his tests a lot of "canned" paper profiles of printer manufacters have a lower gamut of that the printer can reach, this to avoid problems with printer calibration (not done on all the printers) ink sets, paper accuracy or more in general for mass production of printers.
if i remember good this is the link to the video

I'm running on Win 10 and cannot help with Mac software

thanks the same

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I won't comment much on Jtoolman's statements but 'gorgeous' is not a very good and reliable measure to judge profile differences, and all this without a white light box for neutral and repeatable viewing conditions. Looking and comparing the overall volume of gamuts is pretty easy and about the only thing you can do without investing much into prof. software, the gamut volume is a pretty small part for a complete profile asessment, it would be much more important to understand and measure how accurately all those colors inside the gamut volume are rendered even before additional modifications are applied via the normal rendering intents. And aside from all this you would have to go into some statistical analysis of all the variables - instrument and reading variations, print and paper variations, so let's rather stop here.

 

[mavtop]

i'm sorry i didn't want to star a war of flames, it was not my intention i really tried to understand how to profile paper and there aren't much videos about this.

I follow Jtoolman and i take (like always) all like it is, i like to try myself and discover how things works, but repeat i don't want to begin doing simple errors that will bring me to erratic answers to my questions.

This is because i wrote here, only here i found posts about paper profiling in detail, but nothing about how to scan, so i searched and found jtoolman did a video about colormunky paper profiling.

Anyway in another video always about profiling, jtoolman says that the difference can't be seen from unexpert eyes and that sometimes are minimal, he did a lot of videos but i didn't see all of them.

Anyway back in topic, do you think i can scan with the device parallel to the row that i'm scanning or not ? i suppose of yes, i don't think there is a precise way to do it, it would be a sensor, so if i turn the sensor of 90 degrees wouldn't do any incorrect reading.

 

[palombian]

Learning Colour Management is like jumping out of an Aeroplane without a parachute.
It gets a bit tricky when you reach your destination..

Tip:- Check everything twice before you start..

If you don't have the eye of a professional printer a calibration device is the parachute .

 

[mavtop]

If you don't have the eye of a professional printer a calibration device is the parachute .

for sure

the courier brought the device at home 5 minutes ago, i will check it with the diagnostics when i will get at home later, if i use the X-rite diagnostic do i have to install some drivers or will it be found automatically ?

 

[palombian]

I won't comment much on Jtoolman's statements but 'gorgeous' is not a very good and reliable measure to judge profile differences, and all this without a white light box for neutral and repeatable viewing conditions. Looking and comparing the overall volume of gamuts is pretty easy and about the only thing you can do without investing much into prof. software, the gamut volume is a pretty small part for a complete profile asessment, it would be much more important to understand and measure how accurately all those colors inside the gamut volume are rendered even before additional modifications are applied via the normal rendering intents. And aside from all this you would have to go into some statistical analysis of all the variables - instrument and reading variations, print and paper variations, so let's rather stop here.

The checks Jose does here are obvious IMO, if not there would be an error in the device, the software or the scanning.

As Keith states in a video about the same subject, a profile just makes you reasonably sure about what will come out of the printer. A print must not reflect exactly what you see on the screen (it cannot by definition) and will be different depending on the paper used, it is the final product. When you know how changes on the screen and in the printing instructions (rendering intents,...) reflect on the particular paper you are free to do so.