OEM refillable carts for the MG8220

[jnug]

Well I left the 837 installed mainly for informational purposes. I figured I owned something back for people helping me here. So what info I could glean from the death throws of the 837 might be helpful to guys that really can do something with the info (as opposed to babe in woods me).

Any I have a thread in the Epson forum and there is much more detailed data there. At any rate unless somebody wants me to try something else with the 837 to see what happens as a tutorial or to have another data point, it ate another light magenta OE cart today and that is that. I do have a refurb 837 that I almost completely forgot about. But I think if am going to do anything with that, maybe keep it as a back up or something. I don't know.

I was wondering if the cart that come with a new 8220 are real carts up to capacity or are they "starter carts" with less ink than a normal cart would have. Thinking that I should keep the empties when they become empties so that I can use the chips. But if these are starter carts that may not be such a great idea. Does anybody know?

 

[PeterBJ]

The MG8222 uses the PGi-225/CLI-226 generation of cartridges. These cartridges only come in one capacity which is around 10 ml for the dye cartridges and around 19 ml for the pigment black. The subsequent generation of cartridges, the PGI-250/CLI-251 cartridges come in 3 varieties which are: OEM Setup cartridges which must be used when installing the printer for the first time, and which are standard capacity. OEM Replacement cartridges come in two capacities, standard and XL, 7 ml and 11 ml for the dye cartridges IIRC.

 

[jnug]

This being computer industry update Monday which generally follows computer industry update Sunday and is followed by computer industry update Tuesday, I have a question about Canon printer software updates especially when using Mac OS. Got the first one sent to my computer this morning (Canon version 2.12). The warnings about updating your Epson printer software are legendary...as in DON'T DO IT as the likely consequences are lost ability to reset chips with your resetter. I have not as yet run across the same warning for Canon printers but that might just because you don't know what you don't know until you actually do know it. Maybe I am one search or one thread away from finding warnings about updating Canon printer software as well.

Should I be wary of Canon software updates? Hope not and will be disappointed if that is the case but would rather know than not.

 

[The Hat]

I advocate if it’s not broke then don’t update it..

 

[jnug]

Well that is disappointing. But I can't very well ignore the advise of somebody who has done this a zillion years longer than I have.

 

[jnug]

Not trying to make light of the air bubbles in the squeeze bottles comments that I have read in these forums. But it does seem to me that it is something you just have to get used to as opposed to being something that stops you dead in your tracks.

Since you can see into the bottles, is the user really in a situation where he has to get the air bubbles or any air in the bottle for that matter on the opposite end of the bottle from the needle? Once you have got the bottle tipped upside down and the ink flowing into the tank, I can only guess that you should be OK with regard to air bubbles as long as you put as much ink in the tank as you want in one pass.

Does the popularity of the German method have anything to do with creating a better means to control air bubbles going into the tank?

For all I know, the use of the squeeze bottle tops combined with the German method once learned and once the user's tanks are properly set up maybe makes for the easiest filling.

 

[stratman]

Not trying to make light of the air bubbles in the squeeze bottles comments that I have read in these forums. But it does seem to me that it is something you just have to get used to as opposed to being something that stops you dead in your tracks.

Air can get into the cartridge, visible in the reservoir/spongeless side, for a couple reasons. Air bubbles, which look like foam, may occur as the ink is absorbed into the sponge, when you rest the cartridge after the initial fill (primary time this occurs for me), and when you remove the needle from the cartridge at the end of the refilling.

These air bubbles in the spongeless side eventually resolve and present no issue for me. YMMV. However, these bubbles may present when the sponge is not taking up ink, made painfully clear when ink and air begin to bubble and drip from the ink exit port during the Durchstich refilling, signifying the sponge is "stiff" and needs to be flushed to take up ink properly again. Forum member Mikling makes a case for air being trapped in the sponge cause the sponge to misbehave in another thread.

Regardless, air bubbles in the squeeze bottles is of negligible concern to me. Even when I run out of ink in the squeeze bottle during a refill I can see no further ink coming out of the needle tip and know it is time to stop squeezing the bottle.

Whichever refill method is best for you is entirely up to you. Pick a method and give it a try. You can switch to the other method later on if you would like. You can start with syringes and see how it goes before buying squeeze bottles. You could also try each refilling method at the same time.

 

[jnug]

So I have only found one youtube video specific to refilling the opaque Canon 221/220 carts. The vid is for filling a completely empty cart. The gentleman doing the video covers the vent holes with tape and then first drips 1 ml. of ink onto the sponge via the hole that normally would feed ink to the printhead. Once he had dripped 1 ml. of ink through that hole to expand the sponge, he then sets the cart aside for about two minutes. Then he went on to top fill the reservoir through a typical top fill hole, inserting the needle to the bottom of the reservoir and then went on to reset the chip, never having removed the tape over the vent holes. I thought that was interesting especially given the resent presentations here regarding air pockets in the sponge. Don't you want air drawing ink into the sponge side from the reservoir side at least until the sponge is fully saturated or is 1 ml. of ink the right amount to do that job?

The vids at Precision Color that relate to the air pocket discussion suggest that the sponge side holds 2 ml. of ink I believe. Is the method described correct with the exception of possibly dripping more like 2 ml. of ink instead of 1 ml. of ink through the exit hole at the start of the process of filling a completely empty cart? Or possibly, 1 ml. through the exit hole is appropriate since one does not want to risk inserting too much ink on the sponge side with the cart upside down because one would not want ink reaching the vent hole maze. If that were the case then a 2 min. waiting period followed by a specific volume of ink equal to the amount needed to fill the reservoir AND top off the sponge side should then be used to fill with the tape removed from the vent holes, allowing ink to draw from the reservoir side to the sponge side.

Having reviewed the resent videos here regarding air pockets in the sponge and its relationship to refilling success in the thread titled FLUSHING.....WHY, I have no problem understanding the value of refilling as soon as a low ink message appears. I did however find it interesting that the way the 220/221 and the windowless versions of these carts work, a cart has already gone through a bit of sponge side ink before the low ink warning comes up.

So:
1) having not found any other vids or instructions specific to filling these opaque, sponge side/reservoir side carts, does the method for filling 220/221 described in the one vid I did find seem reasonable?
2) While the method itself may be reasonable, should one drip more ink in at the start in an effort to saturate more of the sponge with ink as I described above (possibly 2 ml. used vs 1 ml.)?
3) Does it make the most sense refilling these opaque carts to always refill immediately upon seeing a low ink warning for one of the carts and then to always refill a very specific amount of ink into that cart at that time with the vent holes uncovered at least for part of the time? Possibly the correct amount would be a bit more than the exact amount needed to refill the reservoir side in an effort to fill the reservoir and top off the sponge.
4) If one always refills before the cart is empty (seemingly the best way by a wide margin) given that some ink has already been drawn from the sponge side of a 221) does that suggest that some air pockets will already start forming in the top of the sponge even refilling as soon as a low ink message is seen or will refilling at that point prevent air pockets from forming in the upper sponge?
5) From the information here, one of the issues from air pockets is capacity. More air pockets in the sponge = less ink capacity on the sponge side and less total capacity for the cart itself as a result. So unless we can control these air pockets does that not mean that we will have to purge or flush the carts more and more often in an effort to remove the air pockets before they simply will not allow ink to saturate that part of the sponge? Won't the total capacity decline as air pockets cover more and more of the sponge as an effect that may start at the top of the sponge but just work its way down the sponge in time.
6) I am assuming that any time you get a low or no ink warning message, the chip on the cart has to be reset after you have refilled it or as you extract it from the printer for refilling. Is that correct?
7) It stands to reason or at least would seem logical that if one were typically performing the same kinds of printing tasks, and refilling using the process I am suggesting above, one would find that more often than not, the same color would be the color that tripped the low ink sensor each and every time and that would become the cart most at risk for needing repetitive purges or flushes eventually. If one were always topping off the other carts at the point of filling the cart giving the warning, then it stands to reason that those other carts would always have enough ink in them to keep air pockets from forming in the sponge side as long as you always had ink drawing from the reservoir side of those other carts to the sponge side. You just don't want to overfill and start getting ink flowing up into the air vent pathways. I think I am correct in that.

So assuming all or even most of the above is correct, what would be the correct volume of ink to insert into a 221 dye ink cart that had given the low ink warning? What would be the correct volume of ink needed to refill the pigment black ink cart? The correct numbers in both cases should be the total ink needed to refill the reservoir and top off the sponge side at the point the low ink warning message is tripped. What would be the correct fill volumes for filling a 221 dye ink cart from completely empty and a pigment ink cart from completely empty? I just don't know what these numbers are but I am hoping that somebody here does. Maybe using specific refill volumes and then possibly verifying by total cart weight may be the best way to deal with these opaque carts.

 

[jnug]

So, I think I know the answer to one of these questions, but maybe not.
First:
When this model and similar model Canon printers are confronted with a mixed page of color graphics with a high text content, does the printer default to the pigment black to print the text or does the presence of some color graphics on the page suggest to the printer that it needs to use its dye black ink.

Second:
Do you guys tend to keep a full set of OEM ink/OEM carts around just in case. Maybe just keep a pigment black around again maybe just in case if one does not want to keep a full set of everything.
or.....is that a waste of money?

 

[stratman]

So, I think I know the answer to one of these questions, but maybe not.
First:
When this model and similar model Canon printers are confronted with a mixed page of color graphics with a high text content, does the printer default to the pigment black to print the text or does the presence of some color graphics on the page suggest to the printer that it needs to use its dye black ink.

Historically, and probably still today, Canon will use the pigment black ink for text unless that text is within a graphics file. If you are printing a web page that has mixed graphics and text, usually pigment black is used for the text. If you try a highlighter pen or water on the text and it smears then you either are using poor pigment in or dye-based ink was used.

Guidelines on ink usage for Canons historically:
PGI-5 Pigment Black Ink is used ONLY For:
- Plain Paper Test (monochrome and grey scale)
- Envelopes
- Transparencies
- Duplex Printing On Plain Paper
- Camera Direct Printing on Plain Paper

CLI-8 Dye-Based Color Inks are used anytime color is printed and is used exclusively for:
- All Photo Paper types (including when Duplex printing)
- High Resolution Paper
- T-shirt Transfers
- CD-R's
- All Borderless Printing, on both PhotoPaper and Plain Paper

Second:
Do you guys tend to keep a full set of OEM ink/OEM carts around just in case. Maybe just keep a pigment black around again maybe just in case if one does not want to keep a full set of everything.
or.....is that a waste of money?

Waste is in the eye of the beholder. Utility of having a second set of cartridges is your decision and can be very useful if your volume of printing, or intolerance to delays in printing, is sufficient. Only you will be able to decide.

I used to run two sets of cartridges but now only use one set for the past several years. If I need to refill during a print job then I refill and find the delay a minor irritant. Plenty on the forum run more than one set. You will figure out your need after refilling a bit.