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Yes, definitely not good.joseph1949 said:
Why do you say that?joseph1949 said:
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Need help. My nozzle checks are bad on my Canon PIXMA MX 870.
- Thread starter joseph1949
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #22
joseph1949
Getting Fingers Dirty
To: ghwellsjr
Why have I decided that a separate print head and refill carts is not a perfect match:
1. I have used a HP DeskJet 882C printer since October 1999. The printer uses a H23 Tricolor cart and a H45 (black) cart. Each cart has a print head. For the first fifteen years I used OEM HP carts and had no problems. For the last four years I used Caboodle carts (HP carts with Caboodle ink). It is my estimate that 50% of the Caboodle carts were bad. Most of the carts would fail at the beginning. A number would fail with the ink half empty. A small number would fail just before the ink ran out. When a cart failed I would return the cart to the Caboodle dealer and the dealer would give me a new cart at no charge. No fuss, no bother. I did learn to buy two H23 carts and two H45 carts when I was at the dealer. Sometimes I would buy three of each type of cart. It was frustrating to have half of the carts to fail, but you learned to deal with it.
2. When I bought the MX870 I used the included OEM Canon carts to make my prints. When the OEM carts were exhausted I started to use Caboodle carts (OEM Canon carts with Caboodle ink). I do not remember having any problems with the Caboodle carts, but then again I did not use the Caboodle carts for very longmaybe two or three months. After the short period of using the Caboodle carts I started to refill the OEM Canon carts and the Caboodle carts with InkTec ink.
3. Because the MX870 has a separate print head I believe even if you use OEM Canon carts all the time you would still have problems with the print head. The print head stays in the printer throughout all the prints that you create. I far as I know Canon does not have a procedure for the owner to take out the print head and do a cleaning. You can call Canon that you have a problem with the print head (or Canon can tell you have a printer head problem) and Canon can send you a print head or not. It depends if the unit is still under warranty or not. Most likely if the unit is still under warranty Canon will send you a refurbished unit. If the unit is no longer under warranty you can sweet talk Canon to give you a new printer head. I am thinking that this will not work most of the time.
4. There is another problem with a separate print head. It deals with what you have to do if you have a bad noozle check. If you do a clean or a deep clean to fix the bad nozzle check you will get the following message:
O All colors
O Black PGBK
O Color C,M,Y,BK
The message is asking you to pick which cart or carts to clean/deep clean. I had a bad nozzle check which showed me that I had a bad Yellow line and all the other carts showed normal. I picked the O Color C,M,Y,BK to clean the Yellow cart. And this is the problem. The clean/deep clean will clean all four carts even though only one cart was bad. I believe that if each cart had its own print head you would only need to clean/deep clean the cart that was bad. No more cleaning all four carts. I realize that a Canon engineer would give me a good reason why a separate print head for each would not work. With cleaning/deep cleaning the four carts at the same time you are using up the ink at a very fast rategood for Canon and bad for you.
5. If you are using a third party ink in OEM Canon carts you are compounding your problems. You will be doing more cleans/deep cleans if you use a third party ink. You can say that there is no way to know if the third party ink is causing more cleans/deep cleans. This is true. I submit that Canon is engineering the print head to need more cleans/deep cleans if a third party ink is being used. Call me paranoid, but this is what I believe. Canons thinking is that the owner will switch back to OEM Canon carts, especially, if the owner needs to clean a print head or needs to buy a new print head.
So, what do you do if you want to eliminate the problem of the separate print head and third party inks? Here are my ideas;
1. Learn how to clean a print head. The method that you use should make it very unlikely that you will make the print head unusable. You say of course, but there is no standard method to clean the print head either by Canon or by the great unwashed on the internet. My advicedo your homework, do not assume that the advice you are getting is correct (there is less of this problem on this forum), and take you time.
2. Have a second print head that you can use while you are cleaning the first one. If you can afford it have a third print head.
3. Learn to refill a cart so that the sponge will be saturated. An unsaturated sponge will give you a false bad nozzle check. Give enough time so that the sponge is saturated. No one will give you a gold star if you refill a cart in record time. Take your time!!!!!!
4. Stuff happens. No cart was made to be reused (i.e. refilled). Canon did not engineer their carts to be reused. It is only through hard work and determination that we have learned to fill carts. If you have leakage or a bad nozzle check do not get upset. You should think that every leakage or a bad nozzle check is a new learning experience. Life would be dull if everything was perfect all the time. Have a Zen moment.
Thank you.
Why have I decided that a separate print head and refill carts is not a perfect match:
1. I have used a HP DeskJet 882C printer since October 1999. The printer uses a H23 Tricolor cart and a H45 (black) cart. Each cart has a print head. For the first fifteen years I used OEM HP carts and had no problems. For the last four years I used Caboodle carts (HP carts with Caboodle ink). It is my estimate that 50% of the Caboodle carts were bad. Most of the carts would fail at the beginning. A number would fail with the ink half empty. A small number would fail just before the ink ran out. When a cart failed I would return the cart to the Caboodle dealer and the dealer would give me a new cart at no charge. No fuss, no bother. I did learn to buy two H23 carts and two H45 carts when I was at the dealer. Sometimes I would buy three of each type of cart. It was frustrating to have half of the carts to fail, but you learned to deal with it.
2. When I bought the MX870 I used the included OEM Canon carts to make my prints. When the OEM carts were exhausted I started to use Caboodle carts (OEM Canon carts with Caboodle ink). I do not remember having any problems with the Caboodle carts, but then again I did not use the Caboodle carts for very longmaybe two or three months. After the short period of using the Caboodle carts I started to refill the OEM Canon carts and the Caboodle carts with InkTec ink.
3. Because the MX870 has a separate print head I believe even if you use OEM Canon carts all the time you would still have problems with the print head. The print head stays in the printer throughout all the prints that you create. I far as I know Canon does not have a procedure for the owner to take out the print head and do a cleaning. You can call Canon that you have a problem with the print head (or Canon can tell you have a printer head problem) and Canon can send you a print head or not. It depends if the unit is still under warranty or not. Most likely if the unit is still under warranty Canon will send you a refurbished unit. If the unit is no longer under warranty you can sweet talk Canon to give you a new printer head. I am thinking that this will not work most of the time.
4. There is another problem with a separate print head. It deals with what you have to do if you have a bad noozle check. If you do a clean or a deep clean to fix the bad nozzle check you will get the following message:
O All colors
O Black PGBK
O Color C,M,Y,BK
The message is asking you to pick which cart or carts to clean/deep clean. I had a bad nozzle check which showed me that I had a bad Yellow line and all the other carts showed normal. I picked the O Color C,M,Y,BK to clean the Yellow cart. And this is the problem. The clean/deep clean will clean all four carts even though only one cart was bad. I believe that if each cart had its own print head you would only need to clean/deep clean the cart that was bad. No more cleaning all four carts. I realize that a Canon engineer would give me a good reason why a separate print head for each would not work. With cleaning/deep cleaning the four carts at the same time you are using up the ink at a very fast rategood for Canon and bad for you.
5. If you are using a third party ink in OEM Canon carts you are compounding your problems. You will be doing more cleans/deep cleans if you use a third party ink. You can say that there is no way to know if the third party ink is causing more cleans/deep cleans. This is true. I submit that Canon is engineering the print head to need more cleans/deep cleans if a third party ink is being used. Call me paranoid, but this is what I believe. Canons thinking is that the owner will switch back to OEM Canon carts, especially, if the owner needs to clean a print head or needs to buy a new print head.
So, what do you do if you want to eliminate the problem of the separate print head and third party inks? Here are my ideas;
1. Learn how to clean a print head. The method that you use should make it very unlikely that you will make the print head unusable. You say of course, but there is no standard method to clean the print head either by Canon or by the great unwashed on the internet. My advicedo your homework, do not assume that the advice you are getting is correct (there is less of this problem on this forum), and take you time.
2. Have a second print head that you can use while you are cleaning the first one. If you can afford it have a third print head.
3. Learn to refill a cart so that the sponge will be saturated. An unsaturated sponge will give you a false bad nozzle check. Give enough time so that the sponge is saturated. No one will give you a gold star if you refill a cart in record time. Take your time!!!!!!
4. Stuff happens. No cart was made to be reused (i.e. refilled). Canon did not engineer their carts to be reused. It is only through hard work and determination that we have learned to fill carts. If you have leakage or a bad nozzle check do not get upset. You should think that every leakage or a bad nozzle check is a new learning experience. Life would be dull if everything was perfect all the time. Have a Zen moment.
Thank you.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2006
- Messages
- 3,645
- Reaction score
- 85
- Points
- 233
- Location
- La Verne, California
- Printer Model
- Epson WP-4530
You make a lot of good points. Your main point that I didn't originally understand is that you prefer cartridges that have a built-in print head. They do have the big advantage that if you have any problem with your printer, you can usually just buy a new cartridge and all your problems are solved. That is true and is probably the best solution for many users who don't do a lot of printing or who don't care about refilling or even saving money on compatible cartridges. It probably would have been the best solution for me, all things considered, but, I chose to take a different path, one that has engulfed me in understanding the inner workings of printers.
I wish I knew how to guarantee a process to clean a print head but I don't. I do know how to damage print heads and even to damage them so bad that they damage your printer or any other printer you put them in. So my general advice is to let your printer try to clean your print head by using a little bit of Windex on the inlet ports or by using a cleaning cartridge. In my experience, if that doesn't work, trying to clean the print head outside the printer doesn't always work and runs the risk of damage. Other people claim to have better success. Maybe they would also have had success if they had let their printer clean the print head. I don't know. Just be careful.
Of course, if you like the idea of cartridges with built-in print heads because they always solve all your problems, then you can just buy a new print head whenever you get a clog. And if your time is worth anything, that may be the best way to go.
I wish I knew how to guarantee a process to clean a print head but I don't. I do know how to damage print heads and even to damage them so bad that they damage your printer or any other printer you put them in. So my general advice is to let your printer try to clean your print head by using a little bit of Windex on the inlet ports or by using a cleaning cartridge. In my experience, if that doesn't work, trying to clean the print head outside the printer doesn't always work and runs the risk of damage. Other people claim to have better success. Maybe they would also have had success if they had let their printer clean the print head. I don't know. Just be careful.
Of course, if you like the idea of cartridges with built-in print heads because they always solve all your problems, then you can just buy a new print head whenever you get a clog. And if your time is worth anything, that may be the best way to go.
I never had any luck letting the printer to clean its print head by itself. That included pouring Windex into the purge unit and let it soak there. But I have had a number of success soaking print heads outside of the printer. I had about 50% success rate in doing that. Even at the rate it is too low still. There is no guarantee that soaking will work but at least there is a chance.
The risk of soaking out side of the printer in my opinion is a handling issue. The print head needs to be carefully handled. Never scratch the print head surface with anything. I soaked an i560 print head for over 4 days. When I was about to give it up I gave it a final try on the printer and found that it was fully unclogged. I can't explain why it suddenly worked. Point is I will not hesitate to soak the print head out side of the printer if a number of cleaning and deep cleaning cycles yield no improvement.
Cleaning cartridge is worth trying too. I had about 50% success rate on it too. The cleaning fluid I used was something very special though. It wasn't Windex. It was a copy machine platen glass cleaner that I have access to in our copy machine room. The contractor always left a half bottle in there. I tried it and it worked.
The risk of soaking out side of the printer in my opinion is a handling issue. The print head needs to be carefully handled. Never scratch the print head surface with anything. I soaked an i560 print head for over 4 days. When I was about to give it up I gave it a final try on the printer and found that it was fully unclogged. I can't explain why it suddenly worked. Point is I will not hesitate to soak the print head out side of the printer if a number of cleaning and deep cleaning cycles yield no improvement.
Cleaning cartridge is worth trying too. I had about 50% success rate on it too. The cleaning fluid I used was something very special though. It wasn't Windex. It was a copy machine platen glass cleaner that I have access to in our copy machine room. The contractor always left a half bottle in there. I tried it and it worked.
