Keeping a good nozzle check on a 1400

[Fenrir Enterprises]

It's my fault for using in-printer reset cartridges (linked, jump to full randomly after dropping below a certain level) that make the printer do more purge/cleaning cycles than necessary. But it seems like every time it does this, it loses the good nozzle check! I'll get it running for a bit, then it'll charge ink and have gaps again. It shouldn't /lose/ lines after a cleaning cycle! Any ideas on why it does this?

I'll be getting new carts eventually, not just yet.

 

[te36]

Have never seen such auto-reset-inline cartridges. Do you have a URL ? I also don't know how the 1400 cartridges in general look like, but with XP cartridges, my experience has been that the likelyhood to get air into the system depends on how much ink the printer is pulling in. For example, i could print everything fine as long as i did not have contiguous areas of one color at full letter/A4 size because thats when the color is pulled in the most. In that case the problem with the cartridges was that there was not enough air intake, which i could fix.

So maybe in your case the 1400 does have maximum ink intake when it tries to prime the head for the new cartridge and that leads to air getting into the system. If there are more holes in your cartridges to let air in faster like on my XP cartridge, maybe that can help. Might as well flood the printer though, dunno the 1400.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

https://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/clogged-black-dye-on-a-1400.11814/#post-100484

 

[mikling]

Let me lecture you guys here.

Typically this is a build up of air internally inside the printhead. This air enters through the nozzles in a random fashion over time. What happens is that when the printer rests, the ink hangs across the open nozzle in a meniscus and stops air from entering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meniscus_(liquid)
This meniscus hanging bounces around when it is shaken or after a droplet has been detached and bounces around. In the more advanced photo printers starting I think at the R3000, the printer actually creates a small vibration to quickly stop the meniscus from bouncing around ( AMC Advanced Meniscus Control) between each firing of the nozzle. Why do this so that when the printer ejects a drop, the drop is more consistent) You will not find this on Worforce nor Epson Artisan etc printers. You can now visualize this little bob of ink bouncing around as it is suspended across the circular nozzle. There is different tech between the cheap workforce and higher end printers. Don't think it is just marketing. It is not if you can appreciate the advancements. ( like folks saying that they can get their cheap hifi to sound like good hifi with an equalizer!)

Now this meniscus is supposed to stop air from going in into the printhead.
Now two or possibly more things can happen now.
First, as these droplets are forced out and the ink droplet detaches, it does not detach perfectly each time. Sometimes it will detach and during the detachment as the droplet breaks away, it will somehow trap a minute bubble of air. If the bubble is small enough and travels slowly enough, it will be expelled inside the next droplet. Now imagine this happening umpteen amt of times per second. Something is going to happen. ( Like gene and cell mutation) Air can somehow build up. On the more advanced printheads Epson listens for when air is in the nozzle and will initiate a small clean cycle. This happens on the largest and newest large format. To my knowledge this is not on the desktop line.
This will also answer why sometimes during printing, a clean cycle is initiated out of nowhere. Why? because the nozzle actuation count has been reached where Epson thinks that air has entered and needs to get it out. Not getting it out early will cause more grief later. See next paragraph.

Now when the printer is at rest, no matter how well the capping station seals. there will always be air inside the capping station. Now this liquid is hanging in there. The capping station is sealed even right thru to the pump. If the ink dries a little on the meniscus, it might be disturbed enough to allow the meniscus to collapse only to form again naturally. When this collapse happens, air migrates into the printhead and is trapped inside the printhead. What happens to bubbles in a liquid? it rises to the highest point. It does not always stay down at the nozzles. So there will be air inside the printhead and not at the nozzle. Air is building up inside the printhead.

So if you imagine air building up inside the printhead and there are cavities up there. Ink naturally stays down relative to air. So even if there is air buildup internally, you can have normal printing as long as the flow is slow and the air is not forced down to the nozzles by heavy continuous printing or a small clean. When this happens the nozzles don't have ink and then bammo.....You hear the screams of people saying that suddenly the printer was printing and then clogged suddenly. Heard this story before?????????? Now you know.

Now also imagine if a head clean takes place and then the air AFTER the head clean air reaches the nozzles....good nozzle check to bad nozzle check. Heard this story before???????? Now you know.

Nothing Epson can do can eliminate this air infiltration from happening. I haven't touched on misting issues during printing as yet. Epson tries to minimize this from happening by, having a more compact printhead nozzle chamber by developing piezo material that can flex more. They also tried coating the underside of the printhead with Teflon to minimize breakdown of the meniscus and help with more controlled detachment. Now instead of estimating when air has built up, they can listen for it like a piezo microphone. Printhead used as a microphone. Nothing can eliminate it but they can try to minimize and manage it. Can't beat nature and physics. Never.

Finally, in all of this there is an optimized liquid characteristic that performs best and it even comes down to the composition of the ink as that has a bearing on how the meniscus behaves. OEM ink is best. Good aftermarket ink can do similar but sometimes but not all.

So there no more hearsay about clogging and cleaning. Take a look from a simplified engineering standpoint. There's too much Cr_p about head clogs on Epson on the internet and users not wanting to hear or able to understand. This all leads to the promotion of snake oil by "sellers".

 

[olynx]

@mikling I guess this is exactly what's happening to my Epson right now and the cause of it was the ignorant newbie CISS use.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

There are lots of things happening in a printhead nozzle,

they can listen for it like a piezo microphone. Printhead used as a microphone.

(One of) the first commercial inkjet printers was a Siemens PT-80 from 1977, and some scientific details (hydroacoustics etc) of inkjet printing were evaluated in a doctoral thesis paper in 1984 https://www.hs-heilbronn.de/2030831/dissertation-wolfgang-wehl.pdf describing and using just this effect - using the piezo element as a sensor e.g. to record oszillations of the meniskus after the detachment of the ink drop (in the appendix chapter 9 and else) or detecting air bubbles preventing the ejection. It is amazing what all is happening in the small nozzles.
'Snake oil' - there is none - cleaners do their job as long there is something to 'clean' but that's not the case in lots of situations in this classical sense.
The pump of the purge unit is pulling ink - or air - or both - and all that together may start to mix and foam, that's quite typical. But why would it pull air - that can be an empty cartridge or a leak at the cartridge outlet.
If I think there is something clogging the nozzles but won't pass through I'm using this little tool as described earlier

a syringe with a piece of tube attached
I don't use it frequently, but now and then when I'm changing, testing inks, using pigments in dye ink printers etc and all those off-standard things, it is helping me in some of those cases if typical cleaning actions won't work anymore.

 

[mikling]

I already explained oncve before why the pull action is very good for real clogs. It has to do with expansion and collapse of air column to allow the liquid to reach further that otherwise it cannot reach with simple compression of air block.
A lot of cleaners are mainly surface tension modifiers to allow better capillary action.

I said typical for when there are erratic patterns and behavior. One needs to take an engineer's standpoint of might be occurring.

I have proven all of these hypotheses with over a year comparison on all sorts of Epsons ranging from my P800, SP3880, P600, R3000, R2880, SP1800, Artisan 1430, Artisan 50, Artisan 730 and two Workforce 3640s and XP610. Many of them using similar inks and conditions. All in my office.

Here is the conclusion. Because of the unique pressurized design of the 3880 and P800, these can withstand longer periods of rest without problems easily months not that I would recommend it. The R3000 and R2880 needs about twice a week operation to be 100% reliable over 4-5 months of testing. With once per week, it might encounter something over a week 1 in 10 times. The P600 can easily go over 1 week and over 2 weeks. Over 3 to 4 weeks, it can get iffy at times but not consistent. The 3640 needs working every couple days to be good at a long stretch, it is not as predictable because the printhead allows significant buildup before something happens and when it happens requires as much as 6 headcleans to clear. I've owned the 3640 about coming three years. It is a good machine but is not in the same category as the Photo machines in printhead design. At the price point, no quibbles. I cannot allow the 3640 to rest as it is in use every day most times.

All my other Canons have no such requirements, you need not be married and committed to the printer. Prospective owners of printers should take note of this.

 

[mikling]

@mikling I guess this is exactly what's happening to my Epson right now and the cause of it was the ignorant newbie CISS use.

The CISS although "isobaric" has little value because the isobaric aspect is swamped by the physical aspects of capillary action. In rest however, the relative location of the isobaric point needs to be checked with the level of the air intake port relative to the printhead nozzle. If the CISS produces a constant pull on the meniscus this will promote collapse and thus ingestion of air during rest. BTW, the mesicus is always collapsing and reforming by itself as it dries a bit. The solids in the pigment ink has an effect as well.
Here's the problem with CISS the way they are designed by the aftermarket..they are mainly for dye inks. With pigment ink they can encounter issues. Second, the isobaric aspect is not required. Drop tube types are successful and don't have isobaric and also do not encounter blockages from settlement.
If you want it done right, look at the 3880 that is really isobaric with a pump. The only way, short of individual pots of ink suspended either in liquid or springs. ( seomone over 10 years ago made a spring contraption CISS on a CLI-8 machine) Everything else is a shortcut that has lots of compromises. No seller of Ciss systems will tell you that and maybe they don't even comprehend.

 

[te36]

Thanks Mikling, very interesting.

I am trying to take what you wrote in this thread together with what you wrote elsewhere (and what i've been able to see myself): humunguous amounts of ink-waste on eg: XP printer through all those cleaning cycles.

If i add these two things up, i start to wonder: Are these printheads simply overengineered and there is no other way to keep good pictures than to waste all this ink ? And the reason is to reduce cost on the print heads ? Maybe getting a bit smaller minimum droplet size ? Printing faster ?

Eg: where print heads 5..10 years ago earier to operate with less problems ? My singular experience with just one printer makes me think so, and i wonder if the printing i need - low volume, reliable, good photos might not be done easier & beter with an older more sturdy printer.