IP8500 dark microbanding in blue tones

[nertog]

Hi everyone,

I've been printing pictures with my ip8500 for some years now. Printing blue skies or smooth blue areas has been a (small) problem ever since actually. Recently it became worse and my prints are not useable at the moment. I'll describe my hardware setup, workflow and problems...maybe someone can shed some light on this.

Hardware setup and workflow:

- camera's: Canon EOS 400D and 7D
- RAW processing: Adobe camera raw
- after ACR: resizing in PS CS5, convert to 8-bit file
- Send to Canon IP8500 driver in a fully color managed workflow with custom printer profile (eye 1 and Profilemaker)
- Print with Canon IP8500 with OCP inks in CLI-8 cartrdiges refilled using the "German method" on Sihl glossy paper (microporous)

I'm 100% sure the nozzles are not clogged. Both the standard nozzle check and the extended one from the service menu are perfect. Last week I cleaned the head overnight with a isopropanol/ammonia/glycerol/H2O mixture, but no improvement. The whole printer has been cleaned, timing strips are clear and the pumps are working perfectly. I recently switched from hobbicolors to OCP ink and have the feeling the problem got worse. I also noticed that the Photo Paper Pro setting in the driver gives huge banding problems and Photo Paper Plus Glossy is better. This was not only for the IP8500 but also for the IP5200 I had before...and replaced for the exact same problem: banding in blue areas.

Some pictures to ilustrate the problem:

This is the full A4 print made with OCP ink, Sihl paper and the highest quality Photo Paper Plus Glossy setting. Dark banding is clearly visible in the dark sky.

Enhanced detail of the same print the show the dark banding problem.

After investing quite a lot of money in new paper and ink supplies I really can't afford a new printhead. It seems that cyan is a problem for the Canon printers as my IP5200 suffered from the same problem. What I can't understand is that these problems show up despite a perfect nozzle check. The printhead doesn't seem the culprit here although I'm sure I'll have perfect pictures when I replace it: Any help or advice on this would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks a lot and many greetings,
Wim

 

[The Hat]

nertog
A nice set up too, but its the printer set up we want the info on.
Do you use OEM cartridges and if so did you purge them before switching to the different new ink.

Looking at the picture closely (very nice) and with what you have said I think the problem might be ink starvation.
Mind you I could be wrong and have being before but with the banding problem you have
it can be caused by a number of things including poor ink flow.

Try giving the cyan cartridge a clean and trying it again or all of them.
If you have taken out you print head make sure that you do a print head alignment again
before you get back to printing your pictures.

Even a print misalignment can cause banding on some photo papers..

 

[nertog]

Thanks for the reply.

I use purged original Canon cartridges. The look fine...so I'm not sure if ink starvation could be the issue. I can try to swap carts to see if that's the problem. I alligned the after taking it out for cleaning and putting it back in the printer.

What are the possible causes for this problem?

 

[nertog]

Just noticed that using a very cheap microporous paper without RC coating shows no signs of banding at all!! How is this possible? Both papers are the same weight (280g)? I always used Sihl paper and was happy with it....strange.

What do you guys think?

 

[l_d_allan]

I'm 100% sure the nozzles are not clogged. Both the standard nozzle check and the extended one from the service menu are perfect.

Wouldn't hurt to upload a scan or macro photo of your nozzle check ... in tight on the nozzle check. It can improve evaluation of the nozzle check to show with normal exposure, and increased contrast so the normally faint colors from a nozzle check are darker . Also, can help to include a white-balance gray card in the nozzle check picture, or before or after the scan or picture.

For completeness, perhaps scans/photos from the nozzle checks from problematic paper, and paper that is working ok?

Hard to tell from the 640x480 upload, but the image seems possibly noisy. What camera at what ISO did you take the picture? 400D or 7D? What happens with a print made from an image shot at lowest ISO in optimal conditions with the very recent 7D? Such as outdoors on sunny day with sun at your back?

What does a Kodak-like test print look like? Here are sources of several I've found useful as base-lines.

Also, can you update your profile with location and printer(s) and other relevant info such as ink, refilling method, etc.? That's helpful so there is less re-reading from the top of an increasingly long thread.

 

[PeterBJ]

The Hat wrote:
Even a print misalignment can cause banding on some photo papers..

and

nertog wrote:
Just noticed that using a very cheap microporous paper without RC coating shows no signs of banding at all!!

The banding seems to depend on printing media, so maybe doing a printhead alignment using the Sihl paper would help ? I think most people use plain paper when doing a printhead alignment, which might not give the correct values for photo paper ? I think it's worth giving a try.

Peter.

 

[l_d_allan]

I think most people use plain paper when doing a printhead alignment, which might not give the correct values for photo paper ? I think it's worth giving a try.

IIRC, my Pro 9000-2 specifically wants plain paper for an alignment, and my iP4500 specifically wants card-stock for an alignment.

ghwellsjr has described what happens during an alignment as ink is flying through the gap between the nozzle and paper, and as the print-head accelerates, slows down, and then reverses direction as it goes back and forth. The thickness of the paper would definitely matter. Then when you tell the print-driver you are using a specific paper, it probably references a table with that paper's thickness, and adjusts according.

Pretty amazing. If there is a mismatch between its assumptions and "ground truth" of the actual thickness, you may have "shot yourself in the foot".

 

[ghwellsjr]

Tin Ho suggested doing a manual alignment instead of an automatic alignment on this thread for a similar problem. Although it didn't help this particular user, it is a better way to do alignments. In that thread is a link by another user, turbguy, with a similar problem that was finally resolved by getting a new print head.

For the record, the purpose of an alignment is to cause the dots that are printed when the head is moving in one direction to overlap the dots the are printed when the head is moving in the other direction. Half the nozzles are aimed at a slight angle so that when the head is moving at a particular speed in one direction, the ink droplets have no horizontal velocity and the same thing for the other nozzles aimed at a slight angle in the opposite direction. This means that the thickness of the paper shouldn't be a factor as long as the print head is moving at the same speed as was done for the alignment. (There are some print qualities, usually on plain paper, that use a different print head speed that could cause this problem and there are some print qualities, again, usually on plain paper that print in only one direction which should elimintate the problem. See this post for more info.)

I'm going to guess that what is happening in an old print head is that the nozzles have lost their aim which would make the alignment be dependent on the thickness of the paper. You could test this by checking the alignment on papers of different thickness to see if they all print exactly the same.