ip4200 Cartridges - from Stevesforums

[hpnetserver]

Have just refilled the CL5 CL8 cartridges on Canon iP4200 after ink low and ink out message was received and LED light on cartridges was flashing. Easy to refill, same as BCI-6 cartridges. Once reinstalled, LED ink low lights keep flashing and status monitor indicates low ink. The printer allowed three more pages to print before ink out warning came up and printer stopped. Cancelling print job and restarting brought up the low ink warning again and a further three pages of print before the ink out warning stopped the print job. After this hapened about fout times, a message came on screen saying correct ink level cannot be detected, click OK to resume printing. Then a message came up saying refilled cartridge is being used, do you want to keep printing. Click yes and then a message saying more or less that the ink count on the cartridge was being disabled and this was recorded in printers memory and Cannon would not be laiable for damage caused to printer. Click OK and print jobs resumed, LED light on cartridges extinguished.
It appears that from this stage on the printer cartridges can be refilled and the printer will print all jobs, but the low ink warning is disabled. This means the level of the inks in the cartridge will have to be carefully visually monitored as there is no means for the printer to detect a cartridge running dry ans stopping the print job before damage is caused to the printheads. It also appears to mean that Canon can detect that refilled cartridges can be used and which may void any warranty work on the printer.

So you can refill these cartridges but it means that the low ink warning is disabled and Canon will know this if any warranty work is required - so user beware. However, the CL5 CL8 cartridges seem to have less ink in them than the BCI-6 cartridges, about 6ml for the colours and they cost an exorbitant Australian $27 each, A$135 for a replacement set for the iP4200. After two lots of reflling the cartridges as compared with buying two sets of Canon cartridges, you would be way ahead, even if you had to throw the printer away and buy a new one!!!

 

[drc023]

This could bring up some interesting legal questions, especially in the US, since the use of OEM only supplies cannot be mandated by the manufacturer. Nor can usage of third party supplies be used as the basis for denial of service unless the failure can be directly attributable to the supplies.

I'm curious about the chipped cartridge. What would happen if the cartridge is topped off prior to getting the low ink warning? Would it still detect a low ink situation based upon droplet count or is the LED/prism still used? What would happen if one of the contacts on the cartridge was damaged (or disabled by a piece of tape) - would it give an error message and not allow printing, or would printing continue on without benefit of the chip?

 

[zakezuke]

This could bring up some interesting legal questions, especially in the US, since the use of OEM only supplies cannot be mandated by the manufacturer. Nor can usage of third party supplies be used as the basis for denial of service unless the failure can be directly attributable to the supplies.

Which if you ran your printhead dry and it was determined this was the cause for failure this would be a good means of establishing a valid reason to not honor warranty service. Now the fact that they chip their cartridges, provide no valid means of resetting them, nor provide anything resembling replacement chips for refillers might being up interesting legal issues esp if they still employ the use of prisms might be valid arguments but in it self it looks like they are trying to sidestep their inability to mandate "their" ink.

 

[Osage]

I am also somewhat interested in these new cartridges and ink. From what I can see, there seems to be huge confusion and these new chips seem to be black boxes.

So some systematic approach would be called for.

A few of these are already posted.

But I ask what happens if no chip is present in a replacement cartridge or the chip in the cartridge malfunctions? Given that many are posting the new cartridges are smaller in capacity and appear to be more flimsy, it begs for a third party to manufacter tanks. And could an existing chip in an OEM cartridge be transplanted into a third party cartridge?

I also wonder if the chip only monitors ink low rather than ink used? If its simply ink low, continually refilling the cartridge before ink low would be the way to go. If the chip monitors ink useage, it would surely notice at some point that an ususual amount of prints are being made and shut something down. A chip resetter would be called for. I also wonder what happens if the OEM chip in the cartridge fails prior to ink low, would Canon not have to replace the cartridge under warranty.

But until someone bites the bullet and takes a truly systematic approach, confusion will rule the day.

As for me, I have the older style of Canon's and am happy, but I do have a friend in the printer market and it would be nice to have answers so I could advise that person.

 

[hpnetserver]

The post from Stevesforum is really saying that the chip on the CLI-8 cartridge will count the ink droplets. When the count reaches a point the printer will begin to warn you about low ink. It will allow you to continue to print and will continue to warn you still. Then after many warnings and apparently you have not replaced the cartridge it will ask you if you have refilled the cartridge. If you answer no it will not let you print any more. You have to replace with another new cartridge. If you answer yes then if you tell you "if you continue to print your warranty is voided". It will allow you to continue to print but the ink monitoring is disabled. The LED will no longer flash when ink is low, which can be a very serious problem. This is also the legal question drc023 is talking about. Legally they can not void your warranty becuase you say you will use 3rd party ink. They can only void your warranty if they can prove the printer is damaged because of using 3rd party ink. This is a game Canon is trying to play with US customers. It is a game they will lose awefully. Hp lost a litigation from changing the design of an ink cartridge which was proven to provide no benefit to consumers but to make refilling more difficult only.

 

[Nifty]

This is VERY interesting! Out of all of the approaches the cart chippers have employed, I like this one the best. It actually acknowledges refillers and gives people the option to refill at their own risk. Of course I'd rather have the systems we've been using to this point, ie no chips, but these chips seem WAY better than the ones that, for example, expire after x number of months.

It is a game they will lose awefully.

I don't know if I agree with this. The refill / non OEM market is relatively small and scary WARNING messages are enough to scare off people who are on the fence regarding refilling. It has been a constant struggle for the refilling community to convince the masses that refilling their cartridges will not void their warranty. Even if the manufacturers can't back up their claims in court, they probably figure that their WARNING messages are enough to scare the masses from refilling.

Hey, this is what capitalism / open markets are all about. Thank goodness we don't live in a place where there is only one printer manufacturer owned by the government and you get put in jail if you refill your cartridges.

Maybe Canon should come out with a printer / cartridge line that is targeted directly to refillers. Maybe with built in continuous ink systems or huge ink tanks. They could charge real market prices to recoup R&D costs and marketing costs... any guesses how much these printers would probably cost?

In a way I'm actually glad that there are so many people out there buying OEM cartridges... they keep the printer prices low for the few of us that refill!

Okay... I'm stepping off my soap box now!

 

[Nifty]

As for me, I have the older style of Canon's and am happy.

I completely agree. I've had a LOT of printers over the years and I firmly believe that baring some MAJOR advances in the printer market, I can see myself being completely happy with the "older" lines of BCI-6 based printers.

My i560, i860, and MP750 printers all produce excellent results. I can only assume that the ip4000 and ip5000 printers do a fine job as well.

If my printers all die, or if I have friends looking for printers I'll send them online looking for these "old" models... if all else fails there is always eBay!

 

[panos]

I am not sure Canon has abandoned their "thinktank" system (the optical recognition of ink levels using a light beam and a prism)... take a look here... I think it still has a prism.

Also, take a look here. Apparently the Enderlin-direct guys have found that you can use normal compatible cartridges, so it's not really a big deal. As Rob says, when more consumers buy OEM cartridges, we buy printers at lower prices

 

[KnightCrawler]

Great lo-jacked carts, that's all we need. I am confident that someone will break the chip though.