iP2000 vs iP3000 vs iP4000

[alexandereci]

I'm wondering what the difference these 3 printers have in terms of print quality?

I looked at the brochure, and notice that the 3 printers can print a minimum of 2pl and all can print at 4800x1200dpi, so I figure there won't be noticeable difference in print quality.

However, the 2000 has the fewest nozzles, the 3000 has more, and the 4000 has even more, so there is a difference in print speed. I won't be running rush jobs, however, so this isn't really important to me.

All 3 printers can also print borderless on 4x6", 5x7", and A4. I'm confused by this - does this mean that it cannot print borderless on 8.5x11 paper?

I also see that each printer has a top and bottom margin, and differs with each printer. This margin is very small, so I don't expect this to be a major issue, I can give up a few pixels at these areas, however, more than half-inch margins is too much but these printers have margins lower than that, so they're all okay.

The iP2000 is the only printer among the 3 that cannot print on cds... a cool feature that I don't think I need. It also uses a different type of cartridge and has no Think Tank technology. The iP3000 and 4000 uses the same cartridges, with the 4000 having one more black cartridge, and both have Think Tank. I plan to do my own refills, is Think Tank that useful? And will it "disappear" when I do my own refills (as is the case I hear with the iP4200)? And why would I need the 2nd black cartridge on the iP4000?

Also, both 3000 and 4000 has auto duplex printing, the 2000 has not - this is important for me since I want to print a lot of ebooks, and can save me some time and effort.... and human error.

So to summarize:
Point 1: The 3 printers DO NOT differ in print quality, only in print speed.
Point 2: The 3 printers can all print borderless on 4x6", 5x7", and A4.
Point 3: The iP2000 cannot print on CDs and has no Think Tank. The other two has these features.
Point 4: The iP4000 has one more black cartridge - as to how this is important is unclear.
Point 5: The iP2000 cannot print duplex automatically.

So there... that's as much head-to-head-to-head as I can make it. Did I miss anything or am I mistaken somewhere? The question that remains is, why would I need the iP4000 when it seems that the iP3000 can do the same?

 

[Osage]

All three are different printers.

The ip2000 is based on the ip1500 printer engine---I think the ip2000 has the additional bell of pic bridge support---but that printer is non-chipped but uses rather small size cartridges---a BCI-24 black and another BCI-24 color cartridge---and OEM vs. OEM cartrridges costs alittle more than twice the per page consumable costs of a ip3k or 4k printers. But from what I have read the output is very good for a low end printer and paired with third party cartridges readily available at a buck a pop could offer very good economy.

The ip4000 is a very good photoprinter---its uses the larger BCI-3&6 cartridges--making it the most economical printer of any OEM to OEM of any make on the market--and because its non chipped it becomes super economical when paired with third party prefilled cartridges or refilling. The ip3000 lacks the BCI-6 photoblack so it must sometimes mix cym to get black in photo mode.--so the ip4000
would be a better choice than the 3000 if photoprinting is a criteria. But otherwise are equally adept at general purpose printing.-----the ip5000 uses the same cartridges as the ip4000 but has a printhead with more noozles and can use 1 picoliter droplets in photomode.-----go higher up the Canon numbers and you lose the large BCI-3eblk text cartridge and go from general purpose printer into specialised photoprinters less adept at text also.

And most Canon non-chipped printers with the exception of the ip3000 seem to have a chipped sucessor.

 

[drc023]

I own all three printers if you consider the ip1500 to be essentially the same as the ip2000. I wouldn't have purchased the ip1500, but since it was a freebie with a new system that's why I have it. Text print quality is excellent on all three, but surprisingly I think the ip1500 may have slightly better text, but that is just my opinion. The ip4000 is my favorite because of its speed and the extra BCI-6BK photo black tank, but as Osage noted there isn't a whole lot of difference in output quality between the ip3000 and ip4000. I've compared the same photos printed on both machines using Easy Photo Print and if there is any difference, I can't find it. As noted, the ip3000 and 4000 are ridiculously easy to refill. Please refill instead of buying cheap third party tanks. Refill inks from the three major sources listed here are all excellent. HobbiColors has the advantage of low price, great service and each refill kit includes a new set of virgin cartridges. But Formulabs from Alotofthings.com and Image-Specialists from MIS (inksupply.com) are also excellent inks. You won't go wrong with any of them. As to the ip4200 and ip5200 which are the successors to the ip3000 and ip4000 models, refilling is also not a problem. You will get a warning that the tank has been refilled, but that doesn't prevent refilling. It only serves as a scare tactic to encourage the purchase of overpriced OEM tanks. Given a few more months, the chipped cartridges will only be considered an annoyance and we refillers will be laughing at them all the way to the bank.

 

[alexandereci]

Yes, I am very familiar with the BCI-24 cartridges, it is what my S200SPx uses. Good only for about 40 pages, then I have to refill it. I think I like the individual ink tank concept of the 3000 and 4000 printers, so I think I'm staying off the iP2000.

So I get it that the only difference between the iP3000 and iP4000 is the presence of the photoblack cartridge - which means that the iP3000 will use up more cyan than usual. Does this mean that aside from ink usage (with the 3000 being a bit more), both printer's print quality is the same or at least not readily noticeable?

I am only familiar with draft, normal, and best printing modes for the printer. Is photo mode also known as the best mode, or is it another mode altogether? Would I be using photo mode on plain 80gsm paper?

The ip4000 is a very good photoprinter---its uses the larger BCI-3&6 cartridges--making it the most economical printer of any OEM to OEM of any make on the market--and because its non chipped it becomes super economical when paired with third party prefilled cartridges or refilling. The ip3000 lacks the BCI-6 photoblack so it must sometimes mix cym to get black in photo mode.--so the ip4000
would be a better choice than the 3000 if photoprinting is a criteria. But otherwise are equally adept at general purpose printing.

I plan to print a few ebooks that has both text, shading, and vibrantly-colored graphics, but plan to print them only on 80gsm paper. I guess when you say "photoprinting", that means printing on photo paper and not on plain paper, right? So I presume that my goal is classified under "general purpose printing."

I'm thinking of getting the iP3000 to save a few bucks... I'm thinking I can do without the photoblack cartridge, since I already have a black cartridge in the 3000 anyway and I can just refill my Cyan.

 

[alexandereci]

@ drc023,

Thank you for posting your thoughts. I am very glad to hear that the difference between the 3000 and 4000 isn't noticeable.

I've compared the same photos printed on both machines using Easy Photo Print and if there is any difference, I can't find it. As noted, the ip3000 and 4000 are ridiculously easy to refill. Please refill instead of buying cheap third party tanks. Refill inks from the three major sources listed here are all excellent. HobbiColors has the advantage of low price, great service and each refill kit includes a new set of virgin cartridges. But Formulabs from Alotofthings.com and Image-Specialists from MIS (inksupply.com) are also excellent inks. You won't go wrong with any of them.

A few questions though - please confirm that the iP3000 and 4000 has Think Tank technology and doing your own refill won't lose the ability to monitor ink levels? Also, are the OEM tanks see-through like the Hobbicolors tanks? I am now very concerned about the health of my print head and don't want to damage it by running out of ink.

I am staying away from the chipped versions of these printers since I can order the 3000 and 4000 versions. The newer ones aren't on store shelves anyway, and I don't want the hassle of the chip technology. I'm looking into the 3rd party inks, but since they are in the US, I think I'll be staying off them for a while since I expect my printer purchase to set my budget back by a big margin. However, I want to treat this printer right (so it won't quit on me earlier than I expect), and I'm really impressed by Hobbicolors' very informative site and ebay webpage. I sent them an email with a few questions and expect an answer soon.

In any case, I'm thinking of buying 2-3 more sets of OEM cartridges, if only to have "spare" cartridges filled up for quick swap refills. There are currently two ink refill brands available locally (Ink Man and Ink King), and seem to be pretty good. Are there any tests I can conduct to see if they really are high-quality ink? I don't want to have a clogged printhead just to figure out that these brands are no good.

 

[Osage]

I can't comment on the two local brands-- ink man and ink king as I have never used them. Maybe other users can-----but given so many inks have been reviewed on this site, its a why buy a pig in the poke-----the general advice is there is no universal inks that work in any printer---the ink should be forulated for the printer it goes into. And worse case senario you could end up with a pigmented ink when dye based color ink is required.---and running a pigmented ink through printhead noozles designed for a dye based ink can result in clogging. So research your vendors well.---but don't want to see you posting here that I tried this or that brand of ink and it clogged my printheads or the color looked terrible. Stick to known brands.

I don't quite know if I agree with drc023 on this refill only thing. I started out using bulk prefilled cartridges and had great sucess--it was a vendor reviewed on this site, cost about a seventh of OEM cartridges, but this vendor is USA only shipping.
But lots of good Euroepean brands are reviewed also---and all work in non-chipped Canons but not on chipped Canons. But I wanted to try refilling so I tried a hobbicolor kits--worked great---but at my printing volume I won't save much over
third party prefilled.---so it depends on a usesr printing volume---but for you---I would say go refilling.

I also don't know if I quite agree with your thinking---here you want to save a little
by getting a ip3000 instead of a ip4000---then you want to get 2-3 sets of OEM cartridges????---------I think you would be better off by getting an extra set of virgin empty cartridges to go with the set you get in the hobbicolor kit--or even two sets-----each set will cost about nine bucks US---or less than the cost of one OEM cartridge.-----and by the way, your OEM cartridges will last much longer than the BCI-24's, and then can also be converted into an extra refill blanks---read up on this forum on how to do it.---basically all it takes is a stainless steel pan head sheet metal screw and a O ring.

But I won't disagree with drc023 on the 3k or 4k choice---either should work well for you. I bought the 4k for my wife---then bought a multifunctional very similar to the 3k for me.

And yes, the Canon OEM cartridges ar transparent like the hobbicolors.--greatly simplified ink monitoring on the non-chipped Canon is done by shining an internal light through the ink reserve tank---ink in the reserve tank stops the light--when the ink is gone the light shines on a sensor---but the general advice is that you should refill before you get the low ink warning--when the ink in the reserve tank drops below about ten per cent or so. Keeps the sponge in better shape that way.---but having an extra cartridge ready really helps---then you can refill at your leisure.

 

[alexandereci]

@ Osage,

I've heard that "there's no universal ink refill" concept, and I'm sure to ask if a particular ink is for a particular brand (don't use HP inks on Canon cartridges). However, the seller does not make a distinction between models of one brand - for instance, a Canon-compatible ink is marketed for all Canon printer cartridges. Should I be worried about this?

As for refilling ink tanks, as I'm not sure about the procedure yet, but I plan to always keep my tanks topped up and don't plan to wait for it to empty or be close to empty. Also, I read about not leaving the printer open for a certain period of time, so I was thinking have at least 2 of each color available, one on the printer and one on stand-by for quick refill "swapping".

I also don't know if I quite agree with your thinking---here you want to save a little
by getting a ip3000 instead of a ip4000---then you want to get 2-3 sets of OEM cartridges????---------I think you would be better off by getting an extra set of virgin empty cartridges to go with the set you get in the hobbicolor kit--or even two sets-----each set will cost about nine bucks US---or less than the cost of one OEM cartridge.-----and by the way, your OEM cartridges will last much longer than the BCI-24's, and then can also be converted into an extra refill blanks---read up on this forum on how to do it.---basically all it takes is a stainless steel pan head sheet metal screw and a O ring.

I looked at the Hobbicolors refill ink kit, they don't sell pigment ink for the 2nd black tank, so I'm thinking I'm better off with the iP3000 and just refill cyan as needed.

I can also save by buying 2-3 sets of OEM cartridges since buying a refill kit from Hobbicolors costs me a lot to ship internationally. However, I will see if I can afford it, I am very much interested in the Hobbicolors kit.

and by the way, your OEM cartridges will last much longer than the BCI-24's, and then can also be converted into an extra refill blanks---

What do you mean by this?

 

[Osage]

To Alexandereci.

1. I would say any ink vendor that makes no distintion between inks---or basically vends the same ink for all printers is to be avoided. You are asking for trouble---why--stick with inks approved on this forum. Hobbicolors is by no means the only good ink---hobbicolors is popular because its a good Canon formulated ink combined with cheap empty cartridges pre-made with a screw seal.

2. You seem perhaps confused when I mentioned the term cym--which stands for cyan, yellow, and magenta---the three primary colors that when mixed can in theory produce any color---but when you mix all three about equally you get in practice a muddy black---which is why better photoprinters add a special photoblack that gives better appearance. In a canon ip4000, the primary colors and photoblack are dye based color ink---the larger text black is a pigmented ink that should not be put in the photoblack cartridge. The dye based and pigment based inks use different noozles in the printhead.

3. Any empty Canon cartridge be it OEM or third party can be refilled. What these cartridges lack from the factory is a resealable ink inlet---instread they were designed to be used once and thrown away---and the ink inlet hole was sealed a different way at the factory.------all the raw materials are there to convert one but its basically a two step process (1) An inklet hole must be created by drilling or hot melting a thin rod through---then you have a hole above the reserve tank to inject ink (2) Then a means must be found to seal the hole you made absolutely air tight---usual means is a stainless steel sheet metal screw with an O-ring--some use hot melt glue or rubber plugs--------once you have the hole and a means to seal it you have the generic equivalent of a empty hobbicolor cartridge with some ink still left in it.

4. Not sure if you understand the mail order process---in the best of all worlds we would just drive to the nearby store and get what we need---but when you have specality items you are unlikely to find the right stuff available---so you either drive hundreds of miles or have what you need mailed to you when its not available locally.---which means your costs have two components---the cost of the good itself
and the cost of postage---in turn postage which is a waste cost to you has two components---handling and weight.-----so when I ordered some third party prefilled cartridges I was faced with the following---
if I ordered one cartridge it would cost me $6.00 to ship---if I ordered 20 cartridges it would cost me the same $6.00 to ship all 20. So the unit cost per cartridge drops when order size increases. rather dramatically at that when the item cost is $1.39---so in this example the unit costs goes from $7.39
to a $1.69

Given international shipping a hobbicoloir kit will cost alot to ship---but a hobbicolor kit plus one or two extra sets of cartridges will cost the same or just a little more to ship if shipped in the same box.
But will kill you in shipping if shipped as seperate orders in two seperate boxes----and hobbicolors will work with you on that. They did with me when I ordered two kits and I saved quite a bit on combined shipping.

 

[drc023]

Alexandereci

I want to clarify a couple of items in the above posts:
1: HobbiColors does indeed sell pigmented black for the BCI-3EBK cartridges.
2: Since you will be paying for international shipping, it would be in your best interests to order as much as possible at one time. 16oz of each color will last you a very long time.
3: As you mentioned it will be a very good idea to order a couple of extra sets of empty cartridges. Not only for economy, but for ease of use.
4: Once the OEM tanks are depleted you can refill them. Use a stainless steel or nylon screw to plug the fill hole.

 

[Osage]

I agree with drc0232 on all those clairifcations.

All I know is that 16 oz of each color would like last me forever. And Dave at Hobbicolors recommends
or advertises the ink has a shelf life of two years.

One standard medium kit comes with 4 oz of pigmented black and 2 oz each of each color. The bulk ink price quoted me by Dave was at $9.50 /per 8 oz bottle.---much lower than MIS inks in the same quanity. Empty BCI-6 cartridges are at $1.65 a pop, and the larger pigmented black empty is $2.50. But one full set and a syringe are included in each kit.

Unlike OEM cartridge users or prefilled cartridge users, a refiller gets close to 100% ink utilizaton. According to JV in his post on prefilled bulk ink cartridges, his BCI-6 canon cartridge contained 14 ml of ink when new, and still contained 3.5 ml of ink at the ink low warning----his comparison cartridges only 12.7 ml new and contained 4.2 ml at ink low---for a ink untilization percentage of 75% and 67% respectively.
Your initial fill will cost you almost 1/2 oz on a BCI-6 and almost a full oz on the larger pigmented black.
But I am interested in getting user experiences on how much ink it takes on refills at Dave's recommended
10-15 % reserve tank level---as some of the ink will go to refilling the reserve tank and other parts towards re-saturating the sponge.----and exactly what technique various users use at the refill point and how much ink is injected.---because in use both the reserve tank and sponge empty.---while a BCI-6 reserve tanl seems to have a capacity of about 7 ml at 90% full---how much of that goes back into the sponge is controlled by how the refiller manipulates the air vent in refilling of a refill--or so I am guessing.

But using Canon figures---a yield of 500 pages from a BCI-3eblk cartridge translates into 500/27 ml of ink or 18.5 pages per ml---but if the ink utilization percentage is 75% then those 500 pages use not 27 but 20.25 ml of ink so the new figure becomes 24.7 pages per ml. And more in line with what a refiller would get. But those are in theory numbers---do any have more exact in use figures.