If it wasn't so agravating it would actually be funny!

[PeterBJ]

The Hat wrote:

Canon already use this fusible chip on the 251/250, it takes about 3 refills to activate
I reckon to give the user a complete sense of security, and then bang wallop gone.

Does this mean that you can deactivate ink level monitoring and print with a refilled cartridge, but as something new, the chip self-destructs after some time?

 

[jtoolman]

I use an iX7000 printer which uses these PGI-9 carts exactly the same ones as in the 9500 (Except Large BK cart).

However while all of these cartridges use the CLI-8 chips as the 9500 does, Mikling pointed out correctly
that the large PGI-9 BK black cart actually uses the PGI-5 chip, which is slightly strange.

Canon already use this fusible chip on the 251/250, it takes about 3 refills to activate
I reckon to give the user a complete sense of security, and then bang wallop gone.

If that is the case then it is a brilliant stragegy!

The new CLI-42 chip is just a variant of the CLI-8 chip I reckon but commutates far more with the Eprom chip
so we wont really know how a reset chip will behave until we try it out,
you may be forced to use several other carts before the first one can be used again, who knows. (Conjecture on my part).

So how many times have you refilled your PRO-1 carts and use then under NO Ink Monitoring? Could we continue to refill and use them Under No Ink Monitoring as long as the carts is not physically damaged? Or will they simply refuse to be accepted after a certain number of refills even with the ink monitor disabled?

The biggest problem I face with all my Canon printer is that they are all connected to one operating system,
so when I go to install a new printer it wants to connect to their website, (So what).

Once there it then checks on all of my current printers and drivers and will make scuttle changes to whichever one it deems fit,
and I only find out later when I go to print something and it wont print properly.

Hmmmm, I have not had that happened to me with any on my printers. They are pretty much all connected through a couple of hubs to two USBs on my WIN 7 main tower. I always manually download the drivers onto a usb stick and install from that.

All of these changes are taking affect right under our noses and most are not aware of them,
I have had some hair rising moments on some of my printers all because of firmware updates..

That's weird as I have not had any requests for any updates on any of the printers. They are all relatively older models with the newedt being the R2000 which is on refillables as well as the Artisan 720 which is on a CISS and are both on WiFi. None of then have attempted any updates behind my back that I know of. If they have, nothing has aparently changed as I am running some sort of refillable or refilled and reset OEM carts on all of them

 

[mikling]

The Hat wrote:

Canon already use this fusible chip on the 251/250, it takes about 3 refills to activate
I reckon to give the user a complete sense of security, and then bang wallop gone.

Does this mean that you can deactivate ink level monitoring and print with a refilled cartridge, but as something new, the chip self-destructs after some time?

The chip might not self destruct but the ability to restore to as original condition may not be possible down the road. We've heard some tidbits before that some appear to do that on other models but it is difficult to tell because it might have gone bad out of aging itself which is a different mode as opposed to self destruct.

But you do bring up a good point. It is entirely possible to have a situation that at first ink monitoring is disabled then it is allowed to function still......but still keeping count of the ink consumed even though recycled and then perhaps after say 6 equivalent cartridge use, it proceeds to self destruct. If not self destruct then the printer initiates a routine to neuter it. This is good from Canon's standpoint...they allow green activities of recycling and after a while, since the chip is neutered. Another new one MUST be purchased to be introduced into the market again. This provides a steady stream of cartridge sales as the old ones as they die, must be replaced.
I wonder if Canon is reading this.

Remember readers, this is all speculation and no confirmation of this is going on at this time but the thought is intriguing.

 

[jtoolman]

OK let me see if I am understanding this.
Scenario:

New set of carts installed
Colors beign to be declared empty one at a time.
Ink monitoring is disabled for each color as it is declared empty
As each cart is declared empty and the ink pmonitorin gis disabled, it is refilled and it continues to be used.
Eventually all carts have been emptied, the ink monitoring has been disabled for each color and all are now refilled and being run without ink monitoring.

Question-1:

Without any speculation, how many refill cycles can one put these carts through???
Mike when you were testing your ink set, did you have the oportunity to also run tests to determine what actually happens after several refill cycles?

Question-2

What if I begin using the printer with two full sets of oem carts?
Run the first set to empty, replace each cart with a new OEM as each ran is empty.
As soon as they are empty they are refilled.
Now I have two full sets that are empty but refilled.

Question-3

Will the carts eventually be rejected.
I assume that the printer is still identifying each cart by color even though the chip is empty and the ink monitoring system has been turned off, correct?

Joe

 

[The Hat]

The Hat wrote:

Canon already use this fusible chip on the 251/250, it takes about 3 refills to activate
I reckon to give the user a complete sense of security, and then bang wallop gone.

Does this mean that you can deactivate ink level monitoring and print with a refilled cartridge, but as something new, the chip self-destructs after some time?

Hi PeterBJ
The removal of these cartridges and then their re-installation again can cause an unstable voltage
to across over pins of the chips which can cause it to self-destruct. (This is not proven)

I reckon if you pulled the power plug out of the wall when the carriageway stops in the middle of the printer,
and leave it a minute for the power to discharge only then change out the cartridges.

This just might help to extend the life of these fragile paper chips. (Just guessing again).

That's weird as I have not had any requests for any updates on any of the printers. They are all relatively older models with the newedt being the R2000 which is on refillables s well as the Artisan 720 which is on a CISS and are both on WiFi. None of then have attempted any updates behind my back that I know of. If they have, nothing has aparently changed as I am running some sort of refillable or refilled and reset OEM carts on all of them

Hi Joe
I was referring only to my herd of Canon printers and not to your herd Epsons.

All of the Canon print drivers are enable to be upgraded whenever they get a call from their website,
it works just like a collective, the older drivers are less prone to these upgrades
because these printer probably lack some future features..

 

[mikling]

The aspect of disabled ink monitoring is likely a bit that is set on the chip on the cartridge when the continue button is held down. What happened in the past is that the resetter would also reset this bit. So to answer your question, two sets of disabled cartridges will act the same as one set totally disabled. Interchange as desired.

Your strategy of two sets is PERFECT. For anyone who missed picking up TWO printers for the extra cartridge and printhead AND paper, you're going to be kicking yourself but many don't have the extra coin to spare while waiting on rebates for two printers. Eventually you run two cart sets down and then the carts become interchangeable. You will get two rounds of hassle per color per cartridge, then it's all gone. So with two sets you'll spend around 160 seconds of pressing the flashing orange button down. That approx three minutes when each one is accounted for.

I have not had the opportunity to run into issues and don't plan to, knock wood. I personally only have one set of carts to mess with and I never got the super deal and I paid over two bills when the initial rebate was there. Then two months after the super deal appeared. Was I kicking myself? No. I needed the printer to do development work.

My pro-10 is waiting for me to pick up stateside. I have to find some time to roll down and pick it up and visit my nephew triplets at the same time.

 

[websnail]

Still a lot of unknowns regarding the 250/251 (550/551) chips including all this "fuse" speculation. It this all still theoretical or has anyone actually observed such behaviour from the chips yet?

As for the two cartridge set approach, if the issue mentioned by The Hat is accurate I don't see how different cartridge sets would remove the potential chip shorting (if it exists) as theorised. From a speedy quick swap angle it makes sense but from a protection against chip failure I'm wondering if I've missed something in the last 2 pages of posts?

 

[The Hat]

Still a lot of unknowns regarding the 250/251 (550/551) chips including all this "fuse" speculation. It this all still theoretical or has anyone actually observed such behaviour from the chips yet?

As for the two cartridge set approach, if the issue mentioned by The Hat is accurate I don't see how different cartridge sets would remove the potential chip shorting (if it exists) as theorised. From a speedy quick swap angle it makes sense but from a protection against chip failure I'm wondering if I've missed something in the last 2 pages of posts?

You have missed a bit all right, that was on a different subject of new chip resetting.

The new CLI-42 chip is just a variant of the CLI-8 chip I reckon but commutates far more with the Eprom chip
so we wont really know how a reset chip will behave until we try it out,
you may be forced to use several other carts before the first one can be used again, who knows. (Conjecture on my part).

My idea of the two cartridge approach was not intended for use with these 250/251 cartridge paper chips at all..

 

[websnail]

You have missed a bit all right, that was on a different subject of new chip resetting.

My idea of the two cartridge approach was not intended for use with these 250/251 cartridge paper chips at all..

Ok, colour me confused then... Are you referring to the 250/251, CLI-42's or future potential?

I've read back through the thread and it's a bit convoluted to say the least... :/

 

[The Hat]

You have missed a bit all right, that was on a different subject of new chip resetting.

My idea of the two cartridge approach was not intended for use with these 250/251 cartridge paper chips at all..

Ok, colour me confused then... Are you referring to the 250/251, CLI-42's or future potential?

I've read back through the thread and it's a bit convoluted to say the least... :/

Only the CLI-42s for now but it could be any other chips into the future if they proved successful for Canon in stopping the resetter.

Is this any better or more confusing to the right honourable Sir,
forgive me, your humble servant..