HP cartridges 364 xl and/or 564 xl

[sneezer2]

Does anyone have an opinion on these cartridges.

Especially with respect to refilling. is it easily done?
What is the original (ml) volume of the ink content.
Of course HP very cagily omits this from their "technical"
information.

Also, I don't understand the numbering. HP websites
again are less than informative on this point and I couldn't
find anything elsewhere that nailed it down for me.
However, it appears that the 564 may be used for US
cartridges and 364 for Europe.

Lastly, what about chip reset. I'm assuming that would
at least be "difficult" but have heard no actual
knowledge from anyone else. I have my own idea on
the nature of the chip but will let it rest for now
to avoid biasing any responses. I'm not being
secretive but just want to hear what others think.

Thanks all.

 

[pharmacist]

Hi sneezer2,

look for my new Durchstichmethod for the PGI-520/CLI-521 cartridges. It can be performed on these types of cartridges. and luckily you are referring to the XL-versions: the low capacity versions can not be refilled using the procedure I am describing. You have to shut down the ink level status and refill as soon as the ink is running low. These cartridges have a transparant window just beneath the ink compartment so it is quite easy to determine whether your ink running low or not.

Here some links to the german druckerchannel.de site:

http://www.druckerchannel.de/artikel.php?ID=2191&seite=6&t=nr_364xl_schritt_1_patrone_vorbereiten
http://www.druckerchannel.de/artikel.php?ID=2191&seite=7&t=nr_364xl_schritt_2_kanuele_einfuehren
http://www.druckerchannel.de/artikel.php?ID=2191&seite=8&t=nr_364xl_schritt_3_patronen_befuellen
http://www.druckerchannel.de/artikel.php?ID=2191&seite=9&t=druckerwarnungen

According to druckerchannel.de the pigment XL can accept 22 ml and the colour XL cartridges 10 ml which is pretty much, even compared to the Canon CLI-8/BCI-6 cartridges.

Or you can look at similar pictures at this topic I posted yesterday:

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=4315

 

[sneezer2]

Thanks, pharmacist. I've already seen your PGI-520/CLI-521 procedure and appreciate your contribution. I wish I were
in a position to contribute as much. I started refilling probably six or seven years ago with really no information
available except the most rudimentary kind. Once I got a reasonable method then I never went back to look for
more info and then I was very sick for a couple of years. During that time I used an ip3000 that just kept
chugging along for almost five years until a few days ago and now I'm trying to get information and help. I'm surprised
and pleased that there is now so much available. I've found a lot of it but I'm certain not all. I also did find the
druckerchannel.de site through this forum and have looked around there for a while.

Actually, my motive for asking about these cartridges is that I may have to buy a new printer. Of course, who but a
refiller would start the choice by looking at the cartridge? I think anyone else would look first at the sleek exterior
design and be concerned whether the cabinet is beige or white. Such a person would be ripped off, by my estimate,
up to a couple of thousand dollars over the life of a printer and, sadly that's almost everybody.

Do you have experience with any of the printers that use this cartridge? Are they tough and well made or just
another piece of junk. I vowed a few years ago never again to buy anything made by Hewlett Packard after
having a number of unconscionable difficulties with their products. I still feel the same way but taking guidance
from the famous quote of John Maynard Keynes, "When the facts change, I change my mind - what do you do
sir?", I could be persuaded. Never doesn't last forever if the facts change. But have they changed? I'm
soliciting opinions on whether or not they have changed in this new series of printers.

Thanks again.

 

[pharmacist]

Actually the printing quality of these printers (9600x2400 dpi, due to the similar design like the Canon's with separate printhead and inktanks) will do alot better than the older HP 21/22/38/39/56/57 printers (only 4800x1200 dpi optimized) and thanks to the extra dye photo black -not seen on the aforementioned older models- the photo's printed with this printer will have a extra kick and also better skin/sky tones without having a extra photo cyan and photo magenta cartridge. If you use the 364XL cartridges you will have twice as much ink per colour compared to the older 6 colour based HP 363 (only 7 ml/colour and no photo black only text black).

Do I have experience with these printers ? Actually not, but I think the fact that HP is using Canon's printing technology is the ultimate proof that Canon's design is the superior one. Looking at the contruction it seems to me a very sturdy made one that could last a long time. One should also look at the price for a new printhead: is it comparable with Canon and will it cost about $50-70 ? If so than it would be bargain, if it cost hundreds of dollars then forget it.

I think that HP with for example the A3+ B8550 printer is filling a gap in demand that Canon has forgotten: a good photo printer with the decent capability to print text documents. Either you will end up with the IX4000/IX5000 (not sold in the US) with only CMY for printing photo's whereby the lack of photo black is cripling the picture quality (less contrast, unsatifactory blacks) or you will end up with the Pro 9000 (here no pigment black for decent text output, but improved gamut by adding the pantone colours green and red). So I even might think of buying these printer if my i9950 will melt down.

I think the best compromise is a A3+ printer having the same printhead like the MP980: 6 cartridges including CMYK + text pigment black + extra grey ink (improved B/W printing), but fed with a CISS system using larger cartridges (at least 30 ml).
Nowadays the very fine 1 pl technology allows the photo magenta/cyan/grey cartridges to be discarded without noticable differences in printout quality and saving in the amount of ink and cartridges to be installed.

 

[sneezer2]

Thanks, pharmacist. Good info and I'm tending to agree with your judgment. Still not clear on the difference between
the 364 XL and the 564 XL but since I notice you are in Belgium that may indeed say it all. The only solid reference
I can find here (US) is to the 564.

I'm assuming that no real progress has been made on these printers as far as resetting chips or bypassing them and
that is a real downer.

 

[sneezer2]

I've had a look at the B8550 in a Best Buy store and though I have reservations about the paper feed method, I
did get a look at the cartridges. What pharmacist has to say seems accurate. Oddly enough, though, the chips
have only four contacts, the same as the Canon chips. Before seeing these I supposed that HP would be using
something like the "smart-card" technology, which would explain what has been reported as "heavy encryption".
The smart-card chips usually use (I think it is) seven contacts but maybe they can get away with only four.
I'm not sure but I think I recall a couple of the seven as being redundant. These chips would be more
expensive but HP will just charge you for it. By the way, these were numbered 564.

I really would like to see some progress in resetting or bypassing these chips as the Canon printers I'm
encountering lately are pretty discouraging.

 

[pharmacist]

I think the 564 are the US versions of the 364 in Europe (just like the CLI-221 (US) versus the CLI-521 (EU)). Here in Europe the B8550 uses the 364 cartridges, which confirms the assumptions we have made. If you want to refill, drop the normal 564/364 cartridges, since these cannot be refilled decently. Choose the high yield 564/364 XL cartridges and use the German durchstich refill method.

In fact the capacity of these XL cartridges, is pretty good compared to Canon's CLI-8 carts. The only problem is the paper feed system problem which seems to make a U-turn, making it unfit for stiffer and thicker paper. At the end I would buy a Pro 9000, which has a much wider colour gamut and the cartridges can be reset and there is this fabulous Hobbicolors UW-8 ink I use to refill my non-chipped i9950 (same printhead) and also important: you can use quite thick paper, which can not be used on the B8550, because it force the paper to make a U-turn.

 

[sneezer2]

pharmacist, I agree with you about the B8550 u-turn. Kinda dumb for a large format printer.
But it seems Canon is going to that type of feed, at least on their all-in-ones. Maybe it doesn't
matter for an all-in-one but I always had trouble with that on every HP printer I ever had.
Not just the u-turn but they would often grab two or three sheets at a time and then jam.
Don't know if they are still like that.

 

[pharmacist]

On my MX850 paper can be fed by the by using the paper tray or on top of it: I use the top feeder when the paper is to stiff to make the U-turn of the normal paper tray. Most more expensive AIO's of Canon have both paper feed systems allowing you to choose from and my photo paper and thicker papers are fed using the top feeder.

 

[phrank70]

Does anyone know where I might buy a CISS for a HP B8550? All I could find were Chinese wholesalers with minimum purchase of 100 or more. Thanks all, Frank