How does the Pro9000 Mark II prime new carts?

[tony22]

The answer to that is simple NONE, Just reset the cartridge then top it up with ink and reuse.

Ha ha! But I'm not yet a refiller. I'm waiting for the warranty to run out. Until then I'll be holding on to the pulled carts, but I would be interested in knowing how many cc's of ink I'd be leaving in if I do this.

So on chipped cartridges if one wants to save as much ink as possible then refill before the ink low warning message comes up and dont reset the chip..

So what happens if one does not reset the chip? Isn't resetting necessary to get the printer / ink monitor to identify the cart as full again?

 

[ghwellsjr]

Tony, if you are saving your OEM cartridges until your warranty expires so that you can then refill them, you should put the orange clip back on the cartridges to seal the outlet port (hold them on with rubber bands) or put a piece of vinyl tape across the outlet port so that the ink doesn't dry out. If you plan on purging them before refilling (a step I don't personally believe is important) then you should use the cartridges until the printer tells you they are empty. You can put back in any that you have already removed when they got low. Then it would be a good idea to seal the outlet port.

Hat was talking about premature refilling without resetting for just a while. Eventually the cartridge will register as empty and then I would think he would refill and reset.

I don't know how many cc's of ink is in the sponge but it's a lot. It is probably almost as much as is stored in the reservoir.

 

[The Hat]

ghwellsjr Eventually the cartridge will register as empty

I have tried this refilling before the cartridge was empty on non chipped cartridges and the result was the printer just kept going.
Now I want to try it with the chip system to see if the printer will register the cartridge empty and stop or just keep going as before.
My idea is to see just how much control the printer has regarding ink usage or has the chip got the final say.
Any taught on this anyone..

 

[ghwellsjr]

ghwellsjr Eventually the cartridge will register as empty

I have tried this refilling before the cartridge was empty on non chipped cartridges and the result was the printer just kept going.

I thought we were talking about chipped cartridges, but, if you continually refill a non chipped cartridge before the reservoir becomes empty, then, yes, the printer will just keep going. Is that what you mean?

But with chipped cartridges, it will behave differently because the printer ignores the optical sensor on the bottom of the reservoir and will eventually register as empty, correct? And then I presume you will reset the cartridge, correct?

 

[The Hat]

ghwellsjr

To answer your first question, yes you are right the printer does keep going.

On the chipped cartridges, the printer will eventually stop and I will have too reset the cartridge.
But my idea is to keep the cartridge topped up just to see much more ink will it take before the chip kicks in and stops the printer.
I plan to do this before the ink low warning appears, so when it does the cartridge will be almost full at that point.
I can get ten ml. of ink into the cartridge on a normal refill, so I want to see how much control the chip has regarding ink flow over the optical sensors.
I tend to over fill my cartridges anyway and the reservoir is always empty when the low ink warning appears..

 

[stratman]

According to the Service Manual, my MP830 will perform a cleaning whenever a cartridge is replaced:

"When only the black ink tank is replaced, Black cleaning is performed. One of the color ink tanks is replaced, Color
cleaning is performed. Both the black and color ink tanks are replaced, All-at-the-same-time cleaning is performed."

I would not be surprised if your printer is similar.

I too have noticed that sometimes after replacing a cartridge that there will not be an immediate cleaning as suggested by the Service Manual. I've never read or heard someone who knew this algorithm so as to explain the idiosyncracies. Eventually there is a cleaning whether before resuming printing or in the near future. There is method to the madness which we aren't privy and which you can not avoid AFAIK.

I read that you are not refilling until your warranty ends. It is not illegal, at least in the USA. AFAIK, in the event you need to send the printer in for warranty service, Canon has no idea if you use a chip resetter ---- as long as you don't leave the refilled cartridges in the printer when you send it in for service!

 

[stratman]

ghwellsjr

To answer your first question, yes you are right the printer does keep going.

On the chipped cartridges, the printer will eventually stop and I will have too reset the cartridge.
But my idea is to keep the cartridge topped up just to see much more ink will it take before the chip kicks in and stops the printer.
I plan to do this before the ink low warning appears, so when it does the cartridge will be almost full at that point.
I can get ten ml. of ink into the cartridge on a normal refill, so I want to see how much control the chip has regarding ink flow over the optical sensors.
I tend to over fill my cartridges anyway and the reservoir is always empty when the low ink warning appears..

This was tried early on with chipped cartridges. Variations on the theme have been tried as well, such as using tape to occlude the action of the optical sensor.

Unless things have changed, you will not alter the natural progression. This points to more than an optical sensor involved. Some think the optical sensor is an early warning system but not the prime method for when the cartridge is marked empty.

 

[tony22]

Just as an additional bit of observation, I did wait until my PM cart indicated Empty and changed it. The printer did not prime (!) before starting to print again.

 

[ghwellsjr]

ghwellsjr

To answer your first question, yes you are right the printer does keep going.

On the chipped cartridges, the printer will eventually stop and I will have too reset the cartridge.
But my idea is to keep the cartridge topped up just to see much more ink will it take before the chip kicks in and stops the printer.
I plan to do this before the ink low warning appears, so when it does the cartridge will be almost full at that point.
I can get ten ml. of ink into the cartridge on a normal refill, so I want to see how much control the chip has regarding ink flow over the optical sensors.
I tend to over fill my cartridges anyway and the reservoir is always empty when the low ink warning appears..

This was tried early on with chipped cartridges. Variations on the theme have been tried as well, such as using tape to occlude the action of the optical sensor.

Unless things have changed, you will not alter the natural progression. This points to more than an optical sensor involved. Some think the optical sensor is an early warning system but not the prime method for when the cartridge is marked empty.

I tried to determine if the optical sensor is used for any purpose whatsoever on my MX700's and I could find none and I don't recall anyone else ever reporting that it is used on any printer that uses chipped cartridges. If this is true, then the question is: is the optical sensor used for some nefarious purpose? For example, Canon could have programmed their printers to determine when someone refills and resets a cartridge by using the optical sensor and keep that information in a secret register that their technicians can interrogate during warranty service to deny coverage to a customer, legitimately, I might add. So for that reason, I cover up my optical sensors.

Come to think of it, maybe that is why the printer does not do a cleaning cycle when I put in a refilled and reset cartridge. Maybe I didn't do an adequate analysis of the situation. I think I will remove that tape on the optical level sensor and see if the printer behaves differently.

 

[stratman]

ghwellsjr:

A healthy dose of caution is a good thing. Secret registers....??? I don't recall anyone who refilled and has sent their printer in for warranty work/replacement posting about Canon giving them grief. But, who knows!?

I recall conjecture that the optical sensor could be useful, for instance, in the circumstance that someone puts a new cartridge in the printhead and overnight the ink drains from the spongeless side. If the chip measures ink volume based on print spool data or nozzle sprays, or ?, then the chip would not "know" of this critical malfunction, but the optical sensor would note the empty spongeless compartment.

Your covering of the optical sensor reinforces the assumption that the chip is monitoring ink usage from beginning to end.

I do not cover my optical sensors and sometimes there is no cleaning cycle after swapping out cartridges. There must be more to the new cartridge replacement cleaning algorithm than let on in the Service Manual.

I recall people discussing chips having some sort of unique identification number such that refilling, resetting and re-inserting the same chipped cartridge did not work. I think it was for the 220/221 chipped cartridges. The solution was to platoon two different cartridges, the thinking being that the printer was keeping track of cartridge ID numbers and you had to at least alternate one other ID numbered chip if you refilled. This theory was further expanded in that people/businesses that refilled for others/consumers were implementing this strategy as well in some fashion or another. Since this first came to light, it is obvious that many have refilled a single set of cartridges without issue for these types of chips, so who knows what was going on in the beginning of these chips use/manufacturing.

Canon keeps their secrets pretty well. In the knowledge vacuum, people will fill the void with all kinds of conjecture. This keeps Nifty-Forum lively.