Getting Started with Refilling Canon CLI-8 Cartridged

[wcandrews@sccoast.net]

Introduction
Let me begin by thanking all of you on this forum for all your information, advice and help. This is truly a great resource for all refilling problems. I have had a lot of experience with refilling Canon BCI-6 carts for a Canon i9900, but none with CLI-8 carts with chips. My objective with this post is to try to pull all the pieces together from the many threads I have used in an attempt to help the next beginner to get started with refilling CLI-8 carts. There will be some, but not much, new material that has not been posted before, but all that info is scattered in various threads.

While I want to make printing more economical by refilling ink cartridges, I will never do that at the sacrifice of final print quality. That makes getting the right ink for refilling the cartridges critical, and in addition, the delivery system cartridges must be first class.

It was possible to buy good third party BCI-6 cartridges for refilling, and quality ink also. The cartridges all used what we now call the top fill method and was messy and prone to overfilling, but after a while I got the hang of it and did very well with it.. The final ink I used in the BCI-6 cartridges was from Media Street and gave outstanding results at least as good as Canon OEM. In all the years of using this system and ink, I never had a fading problem.

Just so you will know, I have a complete color managed workflow. I use xRite i1 Pro hardware and software to create profiles for monitor, printer, and scanner. Unless stated otherwise, all of the visual conclusions I give will come from that color managed workflow.

9000Pro II Problems
I made many hundreds of prints with the Canon i9000 it is a great printer. As an example, at one time I made over thirty 8.5 x 11, 14 page calendars each year for several years for friends. After a few years and a few print heads, I was happy to see the Pro9000 introduced and was ready to buy one right there. But! Chipped cartridges with no third party alternatives put me off, and I waited and continued to use the i9900.

A little while ago, I learned of some third party chipped, refillable cartridges. By that time, the 9000Pro II was out, and I bought it. I also bought the refillable cartridges and third party ink. Compared to the OEM ink, the results were awful. The cartridges became unusable very quickly. I could never get the cartridges to operate properly long enough to make a judgement about the ink. The supplier even replaced a whole set of cartridges, but the results were no better.

Well, I now have a marvelous printer and must use OEM ink that cost more than blood. Not a good thing it was even worse after I bought my first set of replacement cartridges more than $100.00.

A Light Begins to Shine
From one of the other forums, I learned of this forum and began following it. Here was something completely new to me refill OEM Cartridges. You really intend to mutilate an OEM CLI-8 cartridge, fill it with ink, seal the hole you made, put it back in the printer, and start printing again? Yes, more or less, as we shall see!

From all the reports, I had to accept that the Canon CLI-8 cartridges are of exceptional quality, and until proven otherwise by tests, are much better than any known third party carts certainly better than those I have tried. I had to accept that they can be refilled an almost unlimited number of times, and that a chip resetter will keep the ink monitor working. All that remained was the details of getting it done.

Choice of Refilling Method
The CLI-8 cart must be modified in some way to be able to refill it. There are essentially two general methods Top filling, and the German Method.

The Top Filling Method requires a hole to be made in the top of the ink compartment so that it can be filled almost like we did in the BCI-6 days. The details about making the hole and then sealing it after refilling can be found in threads on this forum and from third party ink suppliers. If the seal is not perfect, just like in the BCI-6 cart, the results are disaster.

The German Method was created by a member of this forum and could just as easily been named the Bottom filling method.

Because of my experiences with top filling BCI-6 carts, I decided that the German Method was for me. Coming from an engineering background, I understand just what is going on with this method. The method and the details about modifying the CLI-8 cart are covered in detail in many threads on this forum, including

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=4315

The only new stuff Ill add to the knowledge base about modifying the CLI-8 is:
1. I found an ordinary ice pick to make the hole very easily and cleanly.

2. The syringe needles must be at least 2" long and can be had in different gauges. I bought a set of eight 20 gauge needles, but found that 18 or 16 gauge needles worked best. Im sure you know that the smaller the gauge number, the larger its diameter.

Initial Setup
To get good repeatable color results, a proper profile is required for each ink/paper combination you use. The best profiles you can get are the ones you make yourself with your own profiling hardware/software, calibrated and profiled monitor, and printer. There are several hardware profiling solutions available at different prices. Youll almost always get what you pay for. In my opinion, if you are not going to make your own ink/paper profiles, you shouldnt use any third party ink at all.

I dont know of any third party ink supplier who provides custom profiles for their ink, and even if they did, a different profile would be required for each different paper. You can live with generic profiles, but you cant get the best results with them.

Since the original OEM cart has some OEM ink in it, you want to remove all of it before trying to print with the third party ink. The best way to drain the cart I have seen is shown here:

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=5382

Detailed Steps to Initialize with the German Method
1. Drain the OEM ink with the paper towel as shown in link above
Keep the paper towel in place overnight.

2. Make hole in Cart as shown in link above.

3. Fill cartridge with distilled water.

4. Drain distilled water with paper towel method.
Keep the paper towel in place overnight.

5. Fill cartridge with new ink.

6. Drain new ink with paper towel method Yes, really! Keep the paper towel in place overnight. This is necessary if you want the prints to be consistent from the new start. Youre going waste some ink while all the old OEM is removed during printing anyway. Just do it here and be done with it. After all, it only takes about 10 ml of ink per cart.

7. Reset chip.

8. Fill cartridge with new ink.

9. Put Carts into printer and check that all works.
I dont use cleaning cycles unless absolutely necessary. The first thing I do is print an Adobe test print that exercises all the colors and many combinations of them. If there are any problems, theyll show up here. If the print is bad, I do another one, and that normally fixes the problem. If it doesnt I look for the problem.

10. Next I do a nozzle check and then head alignment.

11. Make ink/paper profile
Make the printer profiling test prinr (you already have your monitor calibrated dont you) as instructed by your hardware/software. Just remember that you should select the type of paper in the print driver, but turn everything else off.

12. Make Print and compare with OEM ink.
If you like the print, youre finished. If you dont, you may need to find another ink.

13. Print, Print, Print

My Results
I use OCP ink and Red River Arctic Polar Satin paper. My first print to compare with OEM ink and the Red River custom profile is spectacular. My custom profile for the OCP ink is a little better than the Red River profile for the OEM ink. The gamut, saturation, and snap of the images is all I could hope for.

I have not tested any other ink and paper since starting this work with refilling OEM cartridges. Other ink may be as good, or better, than OCP. You should make your own conclusion from your own tests.

Conclusion
1. I am more than pleased with the German Method and wish to thank Pharmacist for bringing this procedure to our/my attention.

2. I also wish to thank ghwellsjr for the paper towel draining method. It added the missing link to the German Method.

3. All went very well, but in thinking about the future, Ill try eliminating step 3 and 4 (the distilled water thing). Its entirely possible that just draining the original OEM ink and filling the empty OEM cart with the new ink, and then draining it before the final filling will get the job done. Ill try that on my next cart initialization and report on it.

Questions?

Good Luck
Wil

 

[Roy Sletcher]

Well written summary Wil,

I too, am a recent convert to the CLi-8 series cartridges. Previously having refilled top loaded BCI cartridges for many years in my i9900. I found the chipped technology was a new challenge and In my research discovered this website and the invaluable contributions from members such as yourself.

Bob Petruska and Irv Wiener were exceptionally helpful to me personally on this and other websites. They saved me from rookie mistakes, and pointed the way to cost effective purchases. Would have taken longer and cost more money using a trial and error method.

On another topic!
Can anyone give a reference to credible documentation on the longevity of the third party inks?
I belong to a camera club where refilling is generally scorned by other members who refer to poor longevity of third party inks, but without any references or figures.

Roy Sletcher

 

[irvweiner]

Roy, thanks for the kudos.

I observe the same concerns with 'many' camera club members--their artistic skills are high, their techno knowledge inadequate and their fears regarding equipment usage bordering on paranoiac. The use of 3rd party ink filled carts is the major hurdle--the dominant fear is damaging the printer and voiding their warranty. This is the response from those with several thousands of dollars of gear but a printer costing less than $100.

To many, refilling carts with ink is akin to root canal surgery without anesthesia! This procedure, simple to us, is considered to be filthy, messy and not worthy the effort to minimize operating costs. For most hobbyists, this is quite true but many of these members have children in school and the use of the family printer is quite extensive and expensive. When I encounter these 'souls' at the Office Supply store holding a handful of OEM carts with their face in shock I can only sympathize.

With or without any detailed references to the longevity of inks the scorning will not be abated. Most realize that pigment inks will possess 'reasonable' lifetimes and that dye inks wont. However, the pigment people are turned off by incessant clogging and the dye guys just print another print.

Club members who exhibit prints larger than ,say, 11x14 will use an outside printer even when I offer to print the print gratis on my Canon (dye) or Epson (pig)! Roy, my Dad told me, decades ago, "you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink".
Take the path less traveled, you have all ready found its rewards. irv weiner


Wil, I'd like to introduce you to my version of 'german' method. I use a rubber plug at the refill hole, I insert my squeeze bottle needle thru the plug and flip the cart upside and refill. This is hydrodynamically identical to the other method and works well for me, no holes needed. I replace the plugs after 3-4 refills. Websnail has just introduced silicone plugs and I look forward to trying them.
Next up--'dehydrated' dye tablets, add water and print!

 

[l_d_allan]

Something that occurs to me ... I wonder if several of us that use CLI-8 based printers would have the time and interest to collaborate on putting together something like a "Best Practices for CLI-8 Refilling" document.

To me, the specifics matter, and "best practices" change over time, sometimes significantly. Also, such a document would go past "Getting Started" to address more aspects of CLI-8 based refilling.

On this forum, I initially found it hard to keep track of what guidance applies to Epson vs Canon, for example. I'll be reading an older post within a drifted thread, and realize that it doesn't apply to me, or is obsolete. And that still happens more than I'd care to admit, actually.

I'm by no means qualified to be the primary author of such a document, but I could contribute a "newbie's perspective". Im sure Id learn a lot .. and unlearn some false premises. Even as I gain more experience, I tend to be able to retain a sense of the bewilderment, intimidation, etc. that a newbie has. Or not?

Also, I have pretty decent photography equipment for taking macro close-ups, although I dont have that much macro experience. Illustrations really help, especially when they are specific to a particular cartridge like the CLI-8. There a quite a few existing photos in various threads. Some could benefit by having labels, perhaps. Video would be great, but Im lacking in that experience although I do have a video capable DLSR.

I am finding the "Inkjet Masters" to be incredibly helpful ... and patient ... but sometimes it can be unrealistic for them to see things from a newbie's perspective. There can be a tendency to assume awareness of info that a newbie is ignorant about. I find that quite a bit of advice can be fuzzy/unclear/ambiguous due to my ignorance or false premises. And there is more than a little "technique advocacy" that could be reduced.

My perception is that Canon printers are in use by the majority of forum participants, with CLI-8 based printers widely used. I don't this would be an effort that would only be applicable to a few forum participants. I could be mistaken.

If nothing else, it might be an expectation of forum newbies asking questions about CLI-8 based printers that they have read the "Best Practices" document. For tech support, it helps to be able to assume a common baseline of awareness.

Some topics?
* Traditional top-filling technique.
* German bottom-filling technique
* Alternate top filling technique(s) as they evolve
* Pros and cons of various techniques
* Purging cartridges. When appropriate and how to do.
* Vacuum. When appropriate and how to do (may be obsolete?)
* Trouble shooting
- clog detection
- print-head cleaning ... 'shallow' and 'deep' and when to replace
- ink contamination ... prevent and fix
- cartridge leaking
- poor refill technique manifested as poor prints from ink starvation
- when to replace cartridges (I think the chip eventually cant be reset?)
* Storage guidelines (but this is perhaps general and not CLI-8 specific?)
* Which printers use CLI-8 cartridges.
* Chip resetting.
* Considerations for how many cartridges to have, rotation, retirement, etc.
* Differences to older non-chipped cartridges that are very similar to CLI-8. Also similarities.
* Difference for newer Canon cartridges. Similarities.
* Advantages and disadvantages of CLI-8 based printers compared to alternatives.
* Recommended vendors, and staying away from non-Canon cartridges and no-name ink.
* Recommended supplies.
* Perhaps some discussion of the economics of refilling vs buying. Is this something that is justified for your situation? But this is more of a general topic.
* Link to a more general Best Practices for Refilling that would address issues that arent specific to the CLI-8 based printers (which doesn't exist ... yet)

My speculation is that a number of Inkjet Masters might be willing to look over evolving drafts and make suggestions. Such a document could potentially save them a lot of time answering the same questions over and over. A common reply could be:
See this link for Best Practices for CLI-8 Refilling, section [fill in the blank].