German "Durchstich" refill method for the PGI-520/CLI-521 cartridges

[erpp]

I have been using the German Method on BCI-3e, and BCI-6, of Canon i560. Using syringes as filling device.
It works fine for the BCI-3e; but for the BCI-6s it looks like the air that is being displaced from the ink reservoir as new ink goes in cannot find a way out, and hence pushes on the ink in the sponge side, causing ink to start flowing out from the outlet hole, and to get into the air space on the sponge side. This started happening when the reservoir was about half filled (yellow and magenta) and about 1/3 filled (cyanide). This is their 3rd refill.
On the first refill the only cartridge that presented this behavior was the cyanide, on the second refill the yellow also did it, and now its all 3 color cartridges.
This happens no matter how slowly I might try to inject the ink.
The cartridges seem to be working well according to nozzle tests done after this last refilling.
I went through this whole thread and did not seem to find this problem in any post. Has anybody else experienced it ?
Could it be that the bottom sponge is saturated with ink, so there are no passages for the air to get out ?
Would it be possible to suck air out from the reservoir with the syringe, and then inject the ink without having it cause a pressure rise and outward flow of air ?
Would greatly appreciate your thoughts on this subject.

 

[equity44]

Yes, erpp. I have recently experienced the same thing with CLI-221 cartridges. I think your assessment may be correct as to the cause. I haven't had complete overlflows occur but when the ink is injected it will almost immediately cause bubbling from the outlet and great care must be taken with the injection to prevent an expulsion of ink. I conclude that the reason I never experienced the issue in the past (I've been using "Durchstich" for at least 4 years) is because I never had a chip resetter in all that time and I would never refill before the sponge had almost gone dry. A few months ago I purchased a resetter and changed my refill habit to do it when the printer warns me the cartridge is about to run out of ink. So now I am injecting ink into an almost empty chamber with a fully saturated sponge. I had thought about trying to suck the remaining chamber ink out with an empty syringe before refilling but rejected the idea since I wasn't experiencing the complete overflows that you describe.

I'll leave it the more expert members to advise you how to proceed.

 

[paulcroft]

I have experienced this on CLI8s which are similar, if not identical to, the BCI6 and reached the same conclusion as you. It used to happen with the cyan and magenta cartridges but I don't know that it's colour specific. When it happened I used to suck the excess ink out of the sponge using the squeezee refill bottle then try again. On one of the magenta cartridges I used to find, too, the ink getting into the air gap above the upper sponge no matter how slowly I injected the ink.

Eventually I flushed the magenta cartridge to try and resolve this and, in so doing, I removed the 'ball' in the top of the ink chamber and replaced it with a silicone plug. Having done this I then found myself wondering why I would continue to use the German method now I had direct access to the ink tank so I sealed the small hole I'd drilled for the German method (with 'hot' glue) and, from then on, I started top filling. This, of course, resolved the problem completely.

I have since flushed all my CLI8 cartridges, sealed off the German hole in them, and now top fill the lot. It's certainly no slower and, for me, seems the best, most logical, and quickest method. And there's the added bonus that it doesn't matter how full or empty the cartridge is, I now never experience the problem of 'excess' ink dribbling out of the outlet hole.

If/when you find that you need to flush your cartridges out you may find the same thing too but, of course, as they say nowadays, YMMV.

HTH

 

[equity44]

paulcroft --

Now that you have gone back to top filling do you have to seal the outlet completely with tape or some such method to prevent leakage during the refill? That clumsy and imperfect aspect of top filling is what drove me to Durchstich in the first place.

Did you have success when you siphoned the sponge with the squeeze bottle?

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

If it happened to me, I would draw air out through a syringe. This will suck some ink into the ink chamber and create an ink-free pathway to air somewhere. If necessary, I would repeat. Whether this is a practical solution, I have no idea.

 

[The Hat]

paulcroft --

Now that you have gone back to top filling do you have to seal the outlet completely with tape or some such method to prevent leakage during the refill? That clumsy and imperfect aspect of top filling is what drove me to Durchstich in the first place.

Did you have success when you siphoned the sponge with the squeeze bottle?

The best and preferred method for sealing the outlet hole when top filling is the orange clip,
held on with a rubber band.

While you have an open hole in the top of the cartridges for refilling the orange clip must remain on the cartridge at all times.

The refill hole should be sealed up completely air tight after you have finished refilling,
there can be no half measures either, tape it not a satisfactory solution
it has to be sealed 100% tight before you can remove the orange clip..

 

[erpp]

Hi again.
Greetings, The Hat, still remember your support and solidarity from December 2011. My appreciation, once more.
Solved the problem - or so it looks like - by drawing air from the reservoir, as advised by Thrilla Mozilla above. Thanks.

1) Used a 10 ml syringe, with about 3-5 ml of ink in it, and almost no air at start, placed in the cartridge as the German Method indicates.
2) Drew air out and could see as ink-air bubbles went into the reservoir, from the sponge side.
3) Then injected ink slowly till ink started to appear in the air space of the sponge side.
4) When this happened, drew air out again and went back to "3".
5) Had to do several cycles of 3 - 4 in each of the three color cartridges
6) Had to pull out the syringe to vacate air in some cases and/or add some more ink, when needed.

Cartridges are Canon BCI-6s.
Ink level in reservoir increased significantly in all three cartridges, rough estimates are: Magenta, the first I tried - only drew out small volumes of air (about 2 ml) at a time - improved from 1/2 full to 2/3 full. Cyanide and Yellow - drew out larger volumes of air (3, 4 or perhaps even 5 ml) at a time - improved from 1/3 full to 80% full (cyanide) and from about 1/2 full to almost 90% full (this could be a little too much ink).
Nozzle checks came out fine, without doing a cleaning before.
Looks like results were better when larger volumes of air were drawn out before injecting ink. You could as well try what may suit your needs.
All cartridges did not show the same behavior: I think the increase of ink volume in the reservoir of the Yellow was attained without having ink show up in the air space at all - in just one cycle of 3-4. Very easy. But this cartridge has shown signs of ink "starvation" (contaminates with magenta, works OK after cleaning), since the first refill. It would seem logical that the "starved" cartridge would be less prone to push ink out when pressure increased on the reservoir side.
Magenta could probably have been filled a bit more if I had drawn out larger volumes of air at one time - will know in the next refill in about 5 months.
I mention ink color just as a reference - probably has very little influence in the behavior of the cartridge.

Hope this helps, thanks again.

 

[equity44]

Thanks for the follow-up erpp. I'll try that if issues arise on the next refill.

 

[paulcroft]

@ equity44

I've been away since I posted my last or I'd have replied sooner.

Yes, I do need to block the outlet when top filling - as you found out it is essential. I used to use the orange clip that you snap off a new cartridge together with a rubber band for this but I now use one of the orange clips which I got from Octoinkjet when I ordered some second hand cartridges and this makes it a breeze.

I had partial success when I siphoned the sponge with the squeeze bottle but I still found it necessary to inject the ink very slowly to avoid an overflow from the outlet and suspect the only way to totally prevent this would be only to refill when the cartridge is empty. However, I never liked to risk running them this low.

I find the topfill method to be about as quick as the German method with none of the overflow problems and I can refill quite happily without ever worrying about whether the cartridge is empty or not.

My first step is to reset the chip which, with a BCI-6 is unnecessary, then:

1. Clip on the orange clip to block the outlet hole.
2. Remove the silicone bung from the top of the ink reservoir.
3. Fill the ink tank to about level with the top of the lower sponge with the breather unobstructed.
4. Block the breather hole with my finger and continue to top up until full.
5. Replace the rubber bung.

Total time about a minute or so per cartridge.

HTH

 

[martin0reg]

...
it looks like the air that is being displaced from the ink reservoir as new ink goes in cannot find a way out, and hence pushes on the ink in the sponge side, causing ink to start flowing out from the outlet hole, and to get into the air space on the sponge side.
...
This happens no matter how slowly I might try to inject the ink.
The cartridges seem to be working well according to nozzle tests done after this last refilling.
I went through this whole thread and did not seem to find this problem in any post. Has anybody else experienced it ?
....

This happens to me frequently and it is the most annoying behavior when refilling BCI or CLI by "Durchstich".
My only advice is to have empty and flushed cartridges in stock, so you can replace the cart which seems to have lost the ability to exchange the air while refilling.
I also blame it on air blocking, caused by "stained" upper sponge or blocked air grooves or whatever...