German "Durchstich" refill method for the PGI-520/CLI-521 cartridges

[davewe]

OK I guess I am not being clear. Either that or I don't understand (a distinct possibility). First of all my needle is 2" long. It penetrates the barrier between the sponge section and the reservoir section. However, about 1/8" into the reservoir section there is an indentation for the airhole. That's what the needle has butted up against. If it weren't for that indentation I could probably insert the needle about another 1/16" into the reservoir. Perhaps there is a way to maneuver the needle around the indentation or perhaps I should have drilled the hole so that the needle could go below the indentation.

I have a picture of another empty cart I have with the indentation highlighted at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/72792992@N00/4667960467/

 

[davewe]

You need to wiggle the needle to overcome that indentation and see the needle going into the reservoir chamber before injecting ink. If the sponged chamber is not completely empty you will have this ink trying to flow back out from the inkjecting hole problem. Try to put the cartridge in 90 degree angle. The hole you drilled at the top and the reservoir tank at the bottom. Then inject ink very slowly. Your needle tip needs to be inside the reservoir tank.

Yes, maybe if I had the cart vertical and injected the ink slowly it couldn't back up. It would have to flow downward. I'll try.

 

[ghwellsjr]

I think the indentation you are referring to is the prism that the printer uses to determine when the reservoir is empty. You don't want to have the needle up against the prisim because it will prevent the ink from squirting out of the needle and it may just be drawn by up the outside of the needle by capillary action and back into the sponge part of the cartridge. Have you seen my two videos? They may make it a little clearer for you. There is a link to the post where I reference them on post #128 of this thread.

 

[ni9eofse7en]

ghwellsjr - Watched the vids on this method very quick, not tried it yet so will take me a while longer, but nice to see it done after reading all 15 pages. Looking at using image specialist inks from octoinkjet, based not far from where I live, and he has provided info directly and via this forum.

One question though, thinking of buying a second set of genuine canon cli8 carts for 6 main colours ( red and green should last a while ). Can you refill a cart and store it using the orange cap for the nozzle, and do you need to seal anything else? So its storage advice for a refilled cart I am after. Or, should you use one cart till it packs in? Thats two questions now.

And a third. Would it be advisable to flush the cart before refilling for the first time?

Thanks in advance.

 

[stratman]

One question though, thinking of buying a second set of genuine canon cli8 carts for 6 main colours ( red and green should last a while ). Can you refill a cart and store it using the orange cap for the nozzle, and do you need to seal anything else?

Yes, the orange cap secured to the cartridge with a rubberband will work. Some people store them in a zip-lock plastic bag or air-tight container to slow evaporation of the ink into the atmosphere. Some advocate a paper towell or tissue wetted with water or alcohol to humidify or prevent growth, respectfully speaking. How long you plan on storing the refilled cartridges may be a factor in deciding if you want to add one of these solutions to the container the cartridges are stored in.

Or, should you use one cart till it packs in?

The Durchstich Method is fast enough that you could, once experienced, refill several cartridges at once without worrying about ink drying up in the printhead. I'd rather have a second set ready to go so that there's less interruption in printing, but it's a personal choice and there is no right or wrong here.

And a third. Would it be advisable to flush the cart before refilling for the first time?

CLI-8 cartridges, the one's you mentioned in your post, are dye inks, meaning they are water based. Refilling a cartridge that's been sitting around empty for months should theoretically (and practically from what I've heard) do OK because the water in the CLI-8 dye ink acts as a solvent for any dried or thickened ink in the sponge. However, the question of mold or fungus in an empty CLI-8 cartridge that's been left un-refilled for a long time might prompt you to flush it before refilling. You'll know you have a problem either by seeing growth in your cartridges, things floating in the ink, or you have problems with streaking in the prints from lack of ink being sprayed onto the paper (maybe even the colors look "off"). There are reports of people who have refilled CLI-8 cartridges dozens of times and never needed to flush.

The PGI-5 PIGMENT Black ink is another story. The PIGMENT ink is not a good solvent, so any crud dried on/in the sponge may not dissolve when you refill an old cartridge. Also, it has been reported that even if you refill an empty ASAP, the sponge will accumulate thickened dessicating PIGMENT ink and eventually you will need to flush the cartridge. You'll know it's time when you get missing print on the page. It has been advocated that the PGI-5 PIGMENT ink cartridge be flushed every 5-10 refills as a precautionary/preventative measure. For some, it's better to be proactive than reactive. The bottom line is that most will flush their PGI-5 cartridges at some point. Once again, there is no right or wrong method... except if your print head burns up from lack of ink flow from the cartridge.

One caveat I adhere to is that if I receive an empty from someone else, especially if I don't know the age or storage conditions for the cartridge, I will flush it.

 

[ni9eofse7en]

Cheers Stratman,

The carts were new Canon that I opened in the last couple of weeks, and as any ink present would still be kinda of fresh it would be canons own and then filled with ink from Octoinkjet, image specialists ink, which so far have received favourable reviews. Info so far states it should be fine as reviews show quality to be very close to canons own.

You have confirmed what I thought would be right for me and I appreciate your prompt reply. Although I might give it another week before trying, just had an eye op so I look like like a pirate at the mo. Better wait till I can see properly before I handle a needle. Plus it gives me time to get things ordered.

Thanks again

 

[stratman]

ni9eofse7en:

Since the cartridges are new and known to you, a refill without flushing is OK for all of them.

I use Image Specialists ink and am happy. There are no issues with IS ink mixing with Canon's OEM ink except your colors wil shift a little until the IS ink replaces Canon's OEM over the next refill or two. If you want to printer profile the IS ink to a certain paper for best possible results then you should flush the cartridges first, then refill, then do your profile. I'd wager that most refillers are satisfied with their refilling ink, such as IS inks, and don't profile their aftermarket inks to a paper. Once again, there's no right or wrong, just personal opinion.

Once you get your eye patch off and your depth perception back I think you will have a fun time refilling. It is very satisfying feeling to DYI, not to mention the 80-90% savings per refill cost of new OEM ink cartridges!

 

[ni9eofse7en]

Well, just done my first refill, and it went ok. Can not say I am proficient having done just one cart, but apart from four or five minor ink drops and wipes, it was pretty starightforward. Thanks to those who supplied the pictures, the words of wisdom and the you tube videos.

The chip was reset and the printer, apart from a few sweeps, seems to be ok with it. I let the unit settle for a few minutes before printing and all seems as expected. I am still trying to colour manage and get the right paper before printing large, so its still a learning curve at this level.

And for anyone like me considering refilling, do your research, ask a few questions, watch the videos and then bite the bullet and go for it. Reason - a Canon CLI8 cart at best I found costs about 10.00, a compatible about 4.00 - to refill costs about 90p and that includes initial set up costs, ie caps, needles and chip resetter. The next time given the current cost of ink would be about 49p. Got to be worth it.

 

[strobemonkey]

HI all, great infos in here... thank you

I have a few questions though, do you inject the ink with the ink outlet facing up ? From what I understand from the OP's post it has to be facing up while injecting ink, but not very fast to avoid ink coming out of the breathing hole, which is facing down... so why not inject ink with the ink outlet facing down instead?

Has anyone done any comparison between fotorite(cityink), jet tec, and octo ink ?

I previously used jet tec, but my epson printer is buggered and I bought a Canon MP560, which means I have to start all over again.

Thank you

 

[ghwellsjr]

I'll answer your first question--don't know about the others:

If you use the German method to inject ink into the reservoir with the outlet port down, gravity will cause the ink to flow right out the hole in the reservoir that the needle is poking through and then it will probably go out the outlet port, maybe some will go out the hole in the end of the cartridge that you made to insert the needle into. With the cartridge upside down, the ink goes to the "top" of the reservoir (which is now the lowest point) and air is forced out of the reservoir. This air can force residual ink from the sponge to come out of the outlet port, the entry hole, or the air vent hole, so you have to be a little careful.