German Durchstich refill method for Canon carts with pictures

[panos]

alexandereci, I have the Sudhaus refill kit and their needles are the perfect size for Durchstich. As a regular blood donor I'm certain that they are not as wide as the ones for blood transfusions, but also not as fine as the typical short needles. I don't like fine needles because they don't allow for quick & easy ink withdrawal from my ink bottles.

My little experience with the durchstich tells me that purging the ink tanks is not really necessary.

 

[stratman]

Hello! I've tried to read this thread from start to finish, but it's late and my mind's overloaded with all the new info, so can someone please be patient and gentle with me and answer a few things:

1. I know the needle needs to be 2 inches long... but what gauge is the needle supposed to be? I'm a nurse and that's how we "size up" needles. Ga16 and 18 needles are the big ones (and long ones) used for blood transfusions and Ga20 and higher are the really fine but short needles for minimum pain. I'd like to use a bigger gauge (fine needle) if possible but I don't think they come in lengths longer than 1 inch.

2. What's this about purging ink tanks? Do I have to? Why?

1) I use 18 guage, which fits snugly after making the hole with a push pin in the cartridge. You can use any guage you want, from 18-25 guage, though you might get tired of pushing with the higher guages. You can use any needle length 2" (50mm) and greater. The needle tip needs to reach into the spongeless side of the cartridge to work properly and with less risk of problems. Lastly, blunt or sharp tipped needles are both good. I use blunt tipped and have had zero problems.

2) Purging of ink tanks is useful in a few situations:

- Cartridges obtained fron Ebay or some other source where you are not sure how the cartridges have been stored.

- Cartridges that have had a different brand aftermarket ink refilled previously and you are going to use a different aftermarket ink. Useful if you care about color reproduction, worried about a reaction/precipitate between the two inks (generally NOT a concern with Canon OEM ink and the better aftermarket inks), or are going to make an ICC printer profile with that ink and a specific paper.

- PGI-5 pigmented ink cartridges that have been sitting around exposed to the elements and dried up, empties purchased off Ebay or some other source where it is unknown how they were stored or used, or after X number of refills - some have purged after 10 or fewer refills to prevent problems like clumping and the resultant poor flow from occuring. (The CLI-5 cartridges are dye-based and therefore are generally miscible/dissolvable in the solvet/water of the refill ink.)

- If printing problems occur that are not cleared from cleaning or deep cleaning via the printer's maintenance functions.

If your cartridges are freshly empty, or recently empty and stored with the ink exit port sealed (the orange clip secured with a rubber band or tape) then you shouldn't need to purge before refilling if using a good quality aftermarket ink - except for the caveats listed above.

As far as purging for preventative reasons with the CLI-8, maybe a good idea after X number of refills or Z number of months of use/storage because of potential bacterial/fungal growth. I don't think there is good data on this yet. I will probably purge a cartridge after one year of use even if no problems are occuring as a maintenance/preventative measure - like a good spring cleaning for the cartridge.

 

[kspeed55]

I need help as to when to change the cartridges in my iP4200. I bought a second set of cartridges and installed them when the original cartridges were reported as being near empty. (I have refilled the originals.) I have replaced the purchased 5 cartridge with the original refilled 5. I thought this would disable the ink monitoring system but the ink dialog is showing the 5 cartridge as empty, but shows ink levels on all of the other cartridges. Now two 8 cartridges have the yellow exclamation. Should I continue to use these cartridges or should I replace them with the refilled cartridges? I dont want to damage the print head. If I change to my refilled cartridges, will I get a message about disabling the ink monitoring when the printer has calculated that these cartridges should be empty? Will it continue to monitor the ink level on the non-refilled cartridges? I have read a number of posts about this but I still dont completly understand it. Thank you!

 

[panos]

The usage information is stored in the cartridges so the printer will remember them no matter how many you rotate.

You need to buy the canon resetter in order to reset the chips and keep the ink count (which helps prevent damaging the printhead).

 

[stratman]

kspeed55:

There are a couple of ways of keeping track of ink levels in your refilled cartridges.

1) Buy a chip resetter and let the printer continue to keep track for you.

2) Look at the ink levels periodically to see how much/little ink is left in the cartridges. This can be a little tricky considering there are several ml's of ink in a saturated sponge and the sponge will still have some ink in it even when it no longer feeds the printhead with ink. Some people will refill soon after the non-sponge side runs out of ink, while others will wait longer based upon their experience and the appearance of the sponge. One way to augment the manual method is to use a program from http://www.inkmon.org/. I have used this application with excellent results. Even with InkMon, manual visual inspection is beneficial. No big deal, IMO.

A starved printhead will quickly lead to permanent damage to the printhead, necessitating a replacement if not caught within a few pages of printing (depending upon how much that ink was to have been used per page). You do not need a chip resetter if refilling, but, the resetter will simplify the game of when to refill. It is your choice of whether the cost of the resetter is worth your money, or, if you are comfortable keeping track of consumption on your own.

Using only one printer, I am comfortable manually keeping track of ink levels. If there are multiple people in a household, or I were printing large volumes per print job, then a chip resetter would be more useful.


As far as the refilled cartridges showing exclamation marks, the chips on the cartridges keep the data on their usage. When your printer alerts you to the cartridge being "empty", there is a residual amount of ink in the sponge. Canon allows one to override the empty message and continue to print for a limited time (number of sprays). At some point, the cartridge will be marked as really, truly, no-kidding "empty", and printing will stop. You are in this inbetween period. Eventually, these refilled cartridges will stop printing and trigger a pop-up window on your monitor screen. At this point you will be instructed to either replace the cartridge or override the monitoring function. If the cartridge is a refill and you want to keep printing with that cartridge, you will either override the ink monitor function for that cartridge by following the on-screen instructions OR you can buy a resetter and reset the chip.

 

[kspeed55]

Thank you for the information. If I understand this correctly, even after I tell the software to go ahead after it reports the cartridge is empty there will still be enough ink to protect the head for a short time. If I switch back to my original (refilled cartridges) will I go through this routine again (I refilled them when they showed the exclamation point)? Will Inkmon work with Vista 64 bit? On my other printer, I just keep track of when I refill and do it after a set time period. This 4200 is my first Canon printer and I love it so I want to keep it as long as I can. I like it so well I bought a 3500 for my business. Will the resetter work on my 3500 as well?

Until I bought this Canon, I had Lexmark and HP. I still have Lexmark but I experienced what I feel is the rise and fall of HP printers. They kept getting better up to my 710 and then it was downhill.

Thanks again!

 

[tigerwan]

Yes you can reset the cartridges for the ip3500 as well, with the resetter.

 

[stratman]

Thank you for the information. If I understand this correctly, even after I tell the software to go ahead after it reports the cartridge is empty there will still be enough ink to protect the head for a short time. If I switch back to my original (refilled cartridges) will I go through this routine again (I refilled them when they showed the exclamation point)? Will Inkmon work with Vista 64 bit?

I do not know if InkMon works with Vista 64 bit. Try asking your question on the InkMon forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/inkmon/. I think you need to join the forum before you can post messages. Terry, the inventor of InkMon is a great guy and tries to accommodate people. Maybe he can help with the Vista 64 bit compatability issue, if it already isn't compatable.

My experience refilling CLI-8 cartridges is that Canon marks them as empty, but it initially may give you the opportunity to "finish" the print job currently in play when the cartridge is deemed "empty". Obviously, the cartridges has some ink left, but not much to ensure much printing before actually empty of any usable ink. The sponge may still be colored by residual ink but there isn't enough pooled ink to deliver flow to the printhead under normal conditions.

Canon realizes there's a small amount of ink left over for a page (??? or more ???) and allows for a short term continuance of printing. Eventual Canon will stop any further printing from that cartridge and you will have to insert a new or refilled cartridge to continue printing.

Let's say you refill the just marked empty cartridge and put it back in the printer. What has happened to me is that the already marked "empty" but now refilled cartridge (and not reset by a chip resetter) may initially work without further effort. Just pop it back into the printer and the ink monitor initially shows it as low ink. Eventually, the cartridge is marked empty again and you will then need to go throught the bypass/override process in which you tell the printer to continue to use the cartridge while accepting the fact that the printer will no longer monitor the ink level of that cartridge. To get ink monitoring to return, either pop in a new cartridge or reset the cartridge using a chip resetter. Otherwise, you now can print using the refilled cartridge and keep track of when to refill manually (using your eyeballs).

In my experience, once a cartridge has been overridden it will not need to be overridden again. If you reset the cartridge, I imagine you would only need to override it in the future if somehow you couldn't reset it again, like if your chip resetter broke.

All that said, be careful tempting fate by continuing to print on an "empty" catridge, even if Canon gives you the option to continue. Finishing a page may be OK, but, why not just refill and ensure a steady supply of ink to the printhead.

Your experience may differ than mine. Hope this helps.

 

[bryan9]

Like many others, I've followed this thread closely and decided to go with the Durchstich refill method.

I've just placed an order for the following items from Howard Electronics. I've indicated my rationale for my choice (based entirely on what I've learned here):

50 (minimum size of order) Jensen Global Industrial Stainless steel needles 20 gauge 2" length $10.50

Rationale: 22 gauge would do less damage to the sponge, but it's tough to force ink through a tube with such a small diameter. People have used 18 gauge successfully, but I wanted to keep the exterior hole as small as possible. Solution: 20 gauge. These are blunt needles. Howard has not advised me of any problem in shipping them to me (I live in Virginia).

10 (1 bag) 4 oz Cylinder Style Bottle W/ Luer Lock Cap (10 per bag $10.00
50 (minimum size of order) 20 Gauge Scabbard (Cover) for 20 gauge standard needles. $6.70

Rationale: I'm buying my ink (Hobbicolors) in 4 oz. bottles. What sold me on the bottle technique was the fact that you have zero cleanup (no washing out syringes, etc.). Several people have reported that they just cap off the needle and put the bottle + syringe away after use. I hope the scabbards provide an airtight seal.

So, I'll post an update once I get my printer (Canon ip9000, ordered but not yet received), and use up enough ink to refill...

--Bryan (Charlottesville, VA)

 

[stratman]

Like many others, I've followed this thread closely and decided to go with the Durchstich refill method.

I've just placed an order for the following items from Howard Electronics. I've indicated my rationale for my choice (based entirely on what I've learned here):

50 (minimum size of order) Jensen Global Industrial Stainless steel needles 20 gauge 2" length $10.50

Rationale: 22 gauge would do less damage to the sponge, but it's tough to force ink through a tube with such a small diameter. People have used 18 gauge successfully, but I wanted to keep the exterior hole as small as possible. Solution: 20 gauge. These are blunt needles. Howard has not advised me of any problem in shipping them to me (I live in Virginia).

10 (1 bag) 4 oz Cylinder Style Bottle W/ Luer Lock Cap (10 per bag $10.00
50 (minimum size of order) 20 Gauge Scabbard (Cover) for 20 gauge standard needles. $6.70

Rationale: I'm buying my ink (Hobbicolors) in 4 oz. bottles. What sold me on the bottle technique was the fact that you have zero cleanup (no washing out syringes, etc.). Several people have reported that they just cap off the needle and put the bottle + syringe away after use. I hope the scabbards provide an airtight seal.

So, I'll post an update once I get my printer (Canon ip9000, ordered but not yet received), and use up enough ink to refill...

--Bryan (Charlottesville, VA)

Welcome to the refilling adventure. The equipment and methodology you have selected will provide a simple and enjoyable process.

One thing I would suggest, though it is not absolutely necessary, is to use a syringe attached to a needle to make the first pass into the sponge. This can be done without any ink in the syringe. Your experience may be different since I use 18 guage needles, but the hole I make with a push pin has a tight tolerance and takes some pressure and wiggling to get the needle in the first time. After that, the needle passes fairly easily with the needle passing through and on top of the sponge like a train on rails during subsequent refills.

The Howard Electronics bottles do work but that first pass places a lot of force/torque on the Luer Lock cap and bottle that I prefer to avoid. I find that a syringe provides better control of the first pass process as well. Any common size syringe that accepts a Luer Lock needle will suffice. Maybe your friendly physician, dentist or diabetic friend will give you an unused empty syringe. Since you only need to do this once per cartridge, a single syringe should be enough for starting many cartridges.

I don't think you need to incur the premium cost of shipping for a single syringe, just see if you can get one free. Maybe you could trade someone a needle or two for a syringe. Otherwise, the Howard bottles will suffice for the first pass, and, the bottles are superior in ease for refilling compared to using syringes IMO.

Let us know how things go.