Freedom Fill Pump Vs. Syringe Fill

[ThrillaMozilla]

ghwellsjr's original freedom refill adapter involves a 90 deg. bend. I have experimented with this method using both bent adapters and straight through adapters like Octoinkjet's flushing adapters. I think the right angle bend is essential, I have had the best results with bent adapters. With a straight through adapter the sponge chamber tends to overfill and the ink chamber does not fill completely.

Foam is formed when air emerges from the thousands of tiny pores of the cartridge filter. This interferes with filling, but the shape or configuration of the syringe adapter has little or nothing to do with it. It's possible to hold the adapter so air doesn't bubble through the ink in the syringe, but I find that has only a minor effect that is hardly worth the effort. I don't think there's anything magical about a 90 degree bend except that it makes it easy to hold the cartridge in the right orientation for removing air and filling.

 

[PeterBJ]

My best results with the Freedom Refill method were with refilling PGI-5 and BCI-3e pigment cartridges. I could fill those without problems with foam formation and flushed and dried cartridges looked exactly like new OEM cartridges after refill. The dye CLI-8 and BCI-6 cartridges sometimes filled without problems, but most often gave problems with foam.

The pigment ink used was KMP-U and the dye inks were Image Specialists. I think that properties of the ink could also be important here. I didn't find mentioning of the ink brand in ghwellsjr's thread about freedom refilling, but IIRC @ghwellsjr mentioned in his profile that he was using Hobbicolors refill ink. Maybe dye inks of this brand are better suited for this refill method?

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Some colors foam more than others. I doubt if there's any particular pattern to it. You just deal with it. The idea is to keep the foam in the syringe and not let it go into the cartridge. As long as you have excess ink in the syringe, the liquid sinks and the foam floats. It's as simple as that.

Or you can prop the syringe open and wait for the foam to break down, if you have the patience. If you have any leak at all, this won't work.

 

[ghwellsjr]

I didn't find mentioning of the ink brand in ghwellsjr's thread about freedom refilling, but IIRC @ghwellsjr mentioned in his profile that he was using Hobbicolors refill ink. Maybe dye inks of this brand are better suited for this refill method?

No, I never refilled with Hobbicolors ink.

For many years, I only used InkTec inks and I refilled using a vacuum chamber. I was refilling for many of my friends and I had purchased thousands of "virgin" BCI-6 and BCI-3eBk cartridges. I never had any problems with refilling until I started refilling cartridges for the second time. I especially had problems with the InkTec pigment black ink. I concluded that that particular ink would clog up the waste ink absorbent pads and the "sponge" material in the cartridges. I never purged any of my cartridges because I never had any problems with Canon virgin cartridges even if they were several years old. But I concluded that you can't let third-party inks dry out in a cartridge and then refill without problems. In fact, I found it almost impossible to purge cartridges that had refilled ink dried out in them for a year or so.

By the time I came up with the Freedom Refill Method, I was starting to use these old previously refilled cartridges and I started having problems with foaming which prohibits a successful refill. I think the most important thing is to not let your cartridges dry out. It may also make a difference what ink you use. I was trying other brands but I couldn't pinpoint if any particular brand had the foaming problem. These problems, plus the problem of the old print heads dying frustrated me to the point that I switched to the Epson WP-4530 which has very large cartridges and which I "purchase" using my recycled Canon cartridges at Staples.

I'm happy that some of you are having continued success with the Freedom Refill Method but I don't think the problems that others are having with foaming are because they are not following the correct technique. I think there are other factors, like the condition of the cartridge or the brand of ink, that are causing the problem.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

But I concluded that you can't let third-party inks dry out in a cartridge and then refill without problems. In fact, I found it almost impossible to purge cartridges that had refilled ink dried out in them for a year or so. Purging old ink is not a problem either.

By the time I came up with the Freedom Refill Method, I was starting to use these old previously refilled cartridges and I started having problems with foaming which prohibits a successful refill. I think the most important thing is to not let your cartridges dry out.

On the contrary, I regard Freedom filling as almost the only method that can guarantee proper ink flow through the sponge, and that's why I still use it. People might be using the term "foaming" to refer either to foam in the syringe or to air in the sponge. If you remove the air correctly, you will not have a problem with air in the sponge or anywhere else.

Let's consider how to get rid of the air. If you have correctly removed it from the ink chamber, then the only air left in the cartridge will be in the sponge and above the sponge. This too is reduced in stages by multiple strokes. Consider just the last stroke. Assume there is, let's say, 3 mL of air left in the sponge chamber (and none in the ink chamber because you have removed it), if you expand that 3 mL to 30 mL in the syringe and replace the vacuum with liquid ink, that will leave at most 10% air in the sponge (i.e., 3/30 = 10%). Actually, it will be less than 10%, because most of that remaining air should go to the space above the sponge. That may even be better than new.

But now that I think about it, the last stroke may be the most important one. If you only expand the syringe from, say, 50 to 60 mL on the last stroke, you are likely to leave a bit more air in the sponge. Maybe not too much, but that might be an area of concern, and it might be possible to make a mistake here. It might be better to empty the syringe of most of the air before the last stroke.

I am quite convinced that if people are having trouble with air in the sponge, it is because they have a leak. I know how difficult it is to seal around the vent. If you tape over the label, air is likely to leak around the edge of the label, and this air will go into the sponge. (Note added later: PeterBJ says aluminum tape works well.) In addition, the label itself may leak where you don't have it covered. I first realized this when I noticed that my cartridges would not hold a vacuum when I pulled back on the syringe.

I think some people are also using an adapter that leaks at the fill port. This won't directly cause air in the sponge, but it will reduce the efficiency of the syringe.

Regarding old, dried cartridges, dye ink is quite soluble. I just dissolve it with Pharmacist's solution and drain the cartridge. Except in special cases* I don't worry about thorough flushing. To avoid diluting the ink, I usually give it another rinse with ink by filling the sponge with ink and draining it again before refilling.

With pigment ink you probably can't remove all the residue, although I have not experienced any problem with pigment black. For my HP564 cartridges, pigment black is the only bomb-proof cartridge. It's very easy to fill, and I've never had any problem. I avoid InkTec pigment black as you suggested, but IS and OCP seem fine.


* The yellow ink in some Canon cartridges will gel under some conditions, and that is a special case in which you have to remove all traces of old ink from the cartridge, and probably from the head.

 

[Smile]

After i melted the luerlock to the clip, that I bought from octoinkjet, the seal now is better (the original hot glue worked for few months). And after I got thick aluminum tape the seal now is way better.

I can fill a cart with 3 strokes of 50cc syringe filled with 20ml ink.
To fill multiples it is still easy to do in vacuum jar (container)

 

[PeterBJ]

Aluminium tape works well for sealing the vent. Blu-Tac, Sticky Fix, and similar products also work well for sealing the vent. Ordinary tapes like scotchtape and PVC electricians tape are no good.

 

[Tudor]

How many cli-8s do you think you could refill at the same time using this device?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E43-CfukEgs

 

[stratman]

How many cli-8s do you think you could refill at the same time using this device?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E43-CfukEgs

Very cool. And in my home town.

Check out the original drop test... on the moon! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C5_dOEyAfk