FAQ-Q? R-Jet Tek and OCP ink experience?

[The Hat]

irvweiner To my European friends, I admit that I microwave my white wine, 'les bouquet est magnifique'

Splendid idea Irv, I just might try that with the red myself.

 

[stratman]

Irv:

Why do you microwave ink at all?

There is more than water and dye molecules in the ink which may be affected by microwaving. Though you don't discern a difference with the naked eye initially does not mean there isn't a physical change to the ink and therefore a change in its performance characteristics. If this process is acceptable to you then so be it. This is the beauty of our individuality and hobbyist spirit. I have satisfactorily used ink that is 2 years old knowing that its performance characteristics cannot be identical to freshly manufactured ink.

I commiserate with you on the work space heating issue. I have electric baseboard heating in my office and it costs plenty. My refill ink and kit is stored in the basement where it is a relatively constant temperature and humidity per season.

 

[The Hat]

Ive got a big computer with 1100 Watts output, that solves my problem with the heating + a 12 inch fan for summer.
I would never microwave my ink dough.. :|

 

[irvweiner]

Gentlemen please! We are creating a 'tempest in a teapot'. I do not microwave my ink on a regular basis, nor do I freeze them yet.

My suggestion is based on the known scientific fact that cooling a 'physical' material or group of materials in contact slows down chemical interaction. With regard to our inks, there are two factors of great concern: chemistry and biology. Many dyes are organic chemicals--nice C-H chains with various complex radicals attached at special points in the chain to yield their special color.

The chemistry part involves the 'breakdown' of the dye molecule with time and temperature. Sunlight, especially it's UV component is the agent that can knock these radicals off the chain or alter the radical's structure resulting in a color change or loss. Increased ambient temperature will accelerate this process.

The biology part, I feel is of greater concern because our workspace atmosphere is filled with dust, mold, spore and bacterial particles. Our organic dyes are their 'lunch'! Each time we open our ink bottles for refilling a cart we present them with a delicious 'smorgasbord'. Our workflow should minimize these opening and closings--welcome the squeeze bottle and our refrigerators!
The use of syringes demand open ink bottles and are a source of 'bio' contamination to the inks. Squeeze bottles do not have to be opened in order to fill a cart--they literally remain closed before, during and after executing their task. And if a simple plastic check valve is inserted between the bottle and the needle, ink will be squirted out when squeezed but outside air and contaminants will not be drawn in when released--by the time a subsequent cart refill is needed, equilibrium will have been restored.

Let us note the mfgrs state that unopened ink/carts are 'safe' for 2 years, opened they are 'safe' for 6 months. I'm quite certain the time period is easily doubled if you would store your ink/carts in the frig. We, users, have already verified this fact, nicely stored and protected they suffer little or no decay.
That is why I claim 'microwaving' an ink for <10 sec infrequently results in no harm or visible degradation of the print. Epson states the storage range for my 3880 ink is -4 to 104 F.

Hmmm, what happens if I were to microwave a finished print or a damp one??
Possibly, we could get Websnail or Mikling to release a set of 'microwave safe' carts--imagine from
the freezer to the printer!!

Mr' Hat: You are not in need of a microwave--just place your glass of wine by the fan's exhaust!!
Are you running a vacuum tube computer?? You remember vacuum tubes, the little glass bottles with the glow of reddish light inside!

This has been a very enjoyable exchange, consider the next generation: Dehydrated ink, pop a pill into your cart, add water and print!!

Seriously, I think the real challenge presented to us is overcoming the fears many hobbyists have regarding the safety and convenience of refilling their carts. The cost savings is clearly recognized but the level of scorn expressed by camera club member to the few 'refillers' in the group must be greatly diminished if not eradicated.

thanks for listening irv weiner

 

[l_d_allan]

consider the next generation: Dehydrated ink, pop a pill into your cart, add water and print!!

Not so far-fetched, perhaps.

[OT?]
I recently read an interesting book that expanded/revised the concepts in Schumpeter's "Creative Destruction" and Pareto's 80/20.

IIRC, the idea was that game changing advances generally start with radically cheaper/simpler alternatives that were just barely good enough to be usable by the customer base with the lowest expectations.

Over time, the technology got not only better, but even cheaper, and eventually destroyed the existing vendors. Those vendors were happy to shed commodity markets and stay focused on the highest profit margin customer with perceived needs that 80 to 90% of the customer base could do without.

Can't think of the book's author or title ... sorry.
[Edit] "The Innovator's Dilemma" by Clayton Christenson dealing with "disruptive innovation".

 

[stratman]

That is why I claim 'microwaving' an ink for <10 sec infrequently results in no harm or visible degradation of the print. Epson states the storage range for my 3880 ink is -4 to 104 F.

Still not a convincing reason to microwave. The operating conditions for the printer include the ink and cartridge as well. Even if your refrigerator chills the ink to less than the lowest acceptable recommended temp for my printer - 41F/5C - the temperature of the ink will increase while you transfer the ink to the cartridge, place the cartridge into the printer, and then while the printer does a new cartridge cycle in preparation for the first print. Warming the ink in a microwave is therefore an unnecessary step which also may be destructive to the ink. Maybe things are different for Epson than for Canons. My thoughts concern Canon inkjet printer use.

Hmmm, what happens if I were to microwave a finished print or a damp one??

Ink does not fair well when microwaved, at least when using full power.. There are websites and YouTube videos which discuss/show what happens. For instance, some ink (pen ink) becomes translucent. Cartridges containing ink catch on fire, possibly in part due to additives in the ink. Metal sparks and the plastic catches fire and burns.

 

[l_d_allan]

Gentlemen please!

Perhaps start a new thread on this drifted topic?

Actually, I'd be interested in other forum participants thoughts on refrigerating and then microwaving bulk ink. Although I really don't see that I would be using a microwave. Refrigerator ... perhaps. Microwave ... unlikely.

I suppose it does bear on OCP ink more than other ink because the minimum quantity from the only North American distributor is 16oz. That's a lot of ink for an individual hobbyist.

Irv ... I'm curious about your "cartridge inventory tactics" and "ink inventory tactics" are. Do you just have one set of carts? Or two? Or more? Do you keep the 16oz bottles from RJetTek in the refrigerator, and the 2oz or 4oz bottles with needles at room temperature? Or all bottles ... sets of 16 oz bottles from RJetTek and your smaller bottles with needles ... in the refrigerator?

I'm trying to think of a scenario where I'd be in such a rush that I couldn't wait for the ink in a cart to warm up, and was tempted to microwave the smaller bottle. Are you microwaving the cart?

I suppose you could have a good size batch of prints to get made, and get a "Low Cart" report from the printer. I would think by the time you put the refrigerated ink in the cartridge through the attached needle, it would warm up quite quickly. It's not like it would take 10 minutes for the ink to warm up in the cart. I would think heat transfer from the cart to the ink would be a factor. I can't imagine that you keep your empty carts in the refrigerator?

IIRC, you have needles kept in place on small squeeze bottles for all 6 of the most used colors, and perhaps all 8 for a Pro-9000-2. It would be pretty quick to have a cart ready to go again, so there might be a patience factor to want to get right back to work.

Another question: I would think that with one set or two sets of carts, then when you got a "Cart Low" report from the printer, you would "top off" other carts that were getting low. Based on my admittedly low amount of refilling experience, when one is reporting low, one or several are nearly low, so why not "top them off" and get fewer "Cart Low" interruptions?

"Inquiring minds want to know." My impression is that our situations are very similar (printer and ink and perhaps amount of printing), so I appreciate the opportunity to learn from your experiences, and the decisions you've made to improve your printing workflow. Less trial and error on my part, so less waste expense for ink and paper.