Fading Performance of HP Dye Inks

Ink stained Fingers said:
the tremendous effects the choice of paper can have, the relative distance of inks by different manufacturers - on the same paper - showing hidden performance differences the suppliers don't tell their customers.
Click to expand...
Once you switch over to using 3rd party inks and no name paper, you now have a combination that isn’t very easy to control, and no matter how hard you try you can never achieve lasting longevity, it’s like heading down a Cul-de-sac...

All dye inks are prone to fading, whether its OEM and 3rd party, it makes no difference, and your only hope of some longevity is to use pigment ink, but even that won’t guarantee you complete success, the photo paper itself maybe the Elephant in the room..
 
I was trying to find out some more details about HP dye inks - which ink is used where - but that is pretty difficult - , the dye inks don't have a name like the Vivera pigment inks.
I found dye inks being used on a range of HP plotters/large format printers,
- the smallest is the 24" T200 model range - e.g. the entry level T230 which uses HP 712 type cartridges, andt his model is a kind of cimilar to the Epson T2100/T3100 printers - with pigment inks - and the T3100X as an Ecotank printer with bottled dye inks - T49H..., a variation of this printer is offered as well as a printer for dye sublimation print - with T49N dye sub inks. I tested the T49H dye inks - they are weaker than the Epson 106 inks - prints are more oriented for poster print - e.g. for shorter term sales actions etc where longevity does not count. But this most likely means that HP is using as well different dye inks for their plotters and the previous photosmart printers with the HP 57 cartridges.
- There is a DesignJet T7100 using the HP 761 dye cartridges - with 400 or 775 ml contents, and the DesignJet 4000/4500 type plotters with the HP 80 dye ink cartridges. I just can assume that all plotters use the same type of dye inks.

- Hp is claiming a longevity of 100 years for the T230 dye inks - again the magic number of 100 years - in this case on a HP Bright White inkjet paper, not a photo paper since this is not a photo printer.

I'm getting from here

https://www8.hp.com/us/en/printers/large-format/designjet-ink-media.html see note 7 at the bottom

to here

https://www8.hp.com/us/en/printers/print-permanence.html

see notes 2 and 4 at the bottom getting here

http://wilhelm-research.com/hp/WIR_Dark_Storage_Permanence_Statement_for_HP_2017-11-07.pdf

and here

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hp/WIR_Ink_Tank_Printer_Comparison.pdf

a test report for ink tank desk top printers although I started off at a plotter T230 with this search

anyway - looking to this report any printer - even with the weakest Epson 664 inks of the L365 - can survive more than 100 years on an Epson Inkjet paper in an album/darkstorage so this 100 year threshold does not mean much at all when comparing the longevity in the other columns e.g. 'Displayed Prints not framed'.

Do these references indicate that the GT52 inks in the SmartTank desktop printer are identical with the dye inks in the plotter - who knows .

And if you are not lost in the maze of HP postings about inks here is one more

https://h20195.www2.hp.com/v2/GetDocument.aspx?docname=4AA7-1156EEE
 
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HP was using dye inks in multi-ink cartridges for photo printers 15 years ago - inks which performed great in fading tests by Wilhelm Research, and I'm trying to find out whether such inks are still in the current HP portfolio hidden somewhere.

I tested the bottled GT52 inks which perform quite well in comparison to the Epson 106 inks, but how are other dye inks doing in this respect - there are HP 31 inks bottled as well for some other tank system printers which I'll test soon, I just have the dye inks for the 24" printer T230 in test - HP 712 inks - that's pretty weak inks - already visible after 2 weeks - not giving any good longevity - inks are good enough for short term posters etc but not more.
 
Since I have described my current method of number crunching here

https://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/epson-106-vs-114-ink-fading-performance.14704/post-127963

I can give you a number how bad the HP plotter dye ink type 112 actually performs, it gives me a number of 61 in 2 weeks - vs. the mentioned 19 in 4 weeks of the Epson 106 inks, and even worse - the '19' is the sum of the luminance shifts of the 4 CMYK inks - the 61 is just the sum of the luminance shifts of the C and M inks. This just shows the wide variations even between OEM inks , and HP still claims for this ink a longevity of >100 years in the magic album with sleeves.
 
I'm closing the test of the HP712 dye inks used in a budget level T230 24" printer, these dye inks are very weak, and I would categorize them into a group of noname/China type inks with a very weak fading performance. I won't give you numbers , they are almost out of range already. Users of this printer don't have a choice, there is no alternative, no refill option, users of the similar Epson T3100X are much better off - that is an Ecotank model you can feed with inks of your choice - dye or pigment
 
I did a test with HP GT52 bottled inks , used for a series of HP tank system printers,

https://www.printerknowledge.com/th...-106-ink-fading-performance.14434/post-126738

I tested similar HP 31 bottled inks for some other tank system printers to see whether they are the same inks.
They perform - prelim. info - very similar to the GT52 inks - if it takes 10 (days) for the 106 inks to fade by an amount of x - shift of luminance - the 31 inks fade faster and reach that same level after 8 (days) - ~ 80% - already , this on a HP premium plus photo paper, measured this time with the scan of a small profiling target - as
described here , comparing data against a patch kept in the dark (in a sleeve....) i1Profiler is doing all the calculations to come to an everage DeltaE for a color and luminance shift which I use to compare the different paper/ink combinations

https://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/fading-of-inkjet-papers.14733/post-128043

If I look to these 2 inks on a cast coated budget paper I'm getting this that the 106 ink on this paper only needs 6 (days) to reach that same level of lum. shift vs. the HP paper, and the 31 ink on this cc-paper gets 0.8 x 0.6 = ~ 0.5 - confirmed by measurement - 0.51
The HP 31 inks are dye inks only for C M Y, the black ink is a pigment ink - the same with the GT52 inks.

This shows how easy it is to accelerate the fading of prints by the wrong choice of materials.

Cast coated papers are budget level papers - but still in a rather wide pricing range , and there are several parameters for you to judge - pricing, look, haptik-paper back - size of the gamut - black level - fading of inks , no supplier can help you with some parameters to compare, you have to test various types to come to a conclusion for yourself; I'm using - amongst some other left overs from such tests - the Logic Seek paper which comes with some different thickness levels, has a pretty low price (via Amazon) and comes in a nice and sturdy box if you order a qty of 200 sheets A4. I know that there are other cheap papers on the market better here or there but I have settled on the LogicSeek material at this time for a cc-paper. I used some LabelHeaven paper longer time ago, but this one delivers a better black level.
 
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