EVACUATION - problem solved

[danrad]

For all the refillers out there who want to evacuate their cartridges in a very effective manner keep reading.
This method is very inexpensive and really works. The first thing you need to do is locate a "Vacuum Hand Pump". There are a few different brands available. A couple to consider are 'Actron' and 'Equoos'. Now these hand pumps are used for bleeding brakes on cars, but they work perfect for evacuating cartridges through evacuation clips. What you will need is a complete kit. This would contain a hand pump, tubing, cannister for evacuated fluid and proper connectors between tubing and evacuation clip. You can get the complete kit from www.summitracing.com for $38. When you are at the site in the 'search' type 'hand vacuum pump' After it is all set up a few sqeezes of the pump and you are off. It also helps to unclog nozzles.

Let me know what you think!!!!

 

[Nifty]

Sounds similar to Grandad's idea here: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/inkrefill.php

I'm tempted to try one of these: http://216.219.159.185/prounits.html

 

[Grandad35]

Danrad,

I bought a similar (all plastic) pump for about the same price at Sears. It worked great for a while - until the handle broke after about 1000 pumps. Given its target user (a shade-tree mechanic) this pump would probably be good for 20 years in its intended application, but it had a much shorter life in the (ab)use that I put it to. I then bought a "professional" version (an identical design, but made from metal) for more than double the price. I should also mention that you can expect to greatly strengthen your hand/arm muscles when using these pumps - they are easy for a few strokes, but 50 after pumps. If anyone is going to use this technique on a continuous basis, an electric pump would be very nice.

Rob,

The system that you referred to doesn't have a pump, and the optional "vacuum pump" that they show is far from ideal. It might be OK to use occasionally, but it doesn't appear to be very ergonomic. This isn't important until you have to pump down the chamber 10 times, then even a "proper" hand pump becomes difficult. Also, they state how easy it is to pump the chamber down to 15" (a 50% vacuum); unfortunately you need a higher vacuum to properly evacuate the carts. If they ever sell a decent electric vacuum pump for the "teaser" price that they give, it would be a good deal.

BTW - I subsequently replaced my glass jar with a small plastic thermos large enough to fill 4 carts at a time. If there is any interest, I can post photos. This work was all based on the premise that the limitation on the number of times that a BCI-6 cart can be refilled is due to air getting into the sponge. As was first pointed out to me by Craig, the problem is more likely to be a buildup of "goop" in the sponge. This goop can be removed by the technique given at http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/canon-BCI-6-cartridges.php. At this time, I am not using the vacuum pump to refill carts.

 

[Nifty]

Grandad, thanks for pointing that out about the pump. I am mostly interested in their chamber and then using a brake bleeding pump or an electric pump to create the vacuum.

Fortunately I've been having very good success with the wiredbeans / acujet cartridges. They seem to refill and flow very well.

 

[drc023]

Instead of brake vacuums, have you looked at some of the vacuum food sealers? Ebay usually has a bunch and here's a non electric one that's inexpensive and pulls a pretty strong vacuum. http://www.pump-n-seal.com/ I don't know anything other than what I've seen on the web site, but it seems like it might work fine for this type of use.

 

[danrad]

I took a look at an Equus model today in Canadian Tire, it is made of plastic and looks pretty cheap (but would probably still work well) So the other model of hand vacuum pump which I actually seen a demonstration of was made by 'Actron' it is made of steel. The only thing is it doesn't come with all the accessories.

Does anyone know where to get the container with two spouts on the cap for tubing.

 

[Grandad35]

Danrad,

Both of my hand pumps are "MityVac", and both came with all of the accessories, including the cup, cover and hoses to trap brake fluid and keep it from getting into the pump. I believe that the metal pump is made from die-cast zinc, but I haven't checked. I got it at a local NAPA - they had to order it, but it only took a day.

DRC,

Regarding food sealers, most of them pull a very low vacuum. This link (from "pump-n-seal") shows a very wide range of vacuums from different systems - three of them less than a vacuum cleaner!
http://www.pump-n-seal.com/vacuumtest.htm

The 28.9" claimed for their pump is very high for a simple pump of this type and must have been generated under very special circumstances (seals and check valves tightly coupled and loaded with oil, etc.) - my metal pump pulls a maximum of 27". I found that 25" of vacuum was sufficient for evacuating carts.

They also claim to be able to evacuate a gallon container in 20 seconds, but they never say what vacuum level they achieve in this time. I would have to see someone evacuate a gallon container to 25" of vacuum in 20 seconds with a hand pump to believe it - it takes me longer than that to evacuate a 1 pint container (1/8 of the volume). For example, assuming that their pump has a volume of 60 CCs and the check valves are perfect (as an unreachable upper limit), it would take at least 113 pumps (((3785-60)/3785)^11330-25)/30) in 20 seconds, or 6 pumps/second. When you add leakage and the dead space in the check valves, this goes up to well over 200 pumps, or 10 pumps/second. I just did a test on a 60 CC syringe with the needle removed and the exit taped, and the best that I could manage was 35 pumps in 10 seconds (and a tired arm and fingers). A syringe (or any other "pull-pump") isn't a very ergonomic device to form the basis for a vacuum pump. I am going into this detail just to show that you can't believe the specifications on many of these consumer-type devices. In contrast, both MityVac pumps exceeded their specification of 25" max vacuum.

To repeat, if you are going to use this system a lot, find an electric pump unless your forearms look like Popeye's.

 

[Nifty]

...find an electric pump unless your forearms look like Popeye's.

Or unless you want them to eventually look like Popeye's!

 

[danrad]

Grandad,

What kind of pump would you suggest and where could it be purchased?

 

[Grandad35]

Danrad,

Good question! If I could have located a good electric vacuum pump locally, I would have bought it instead of my second hand pump.

Here is a link to a site that shows 3 pumps, but they are all sold out - sorry for the tease.
http://216.219.159.185/whvacuumpump.html

Your car engine can pull a very high volume at slightly over 20" by connecting a hose to the intake manifold.

Here are a few pumps on ebay - I don't know what vacuum these pumps will pull or if they even work, but ....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26236&item=7528270192&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=109622&item=7527805506&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=109622&item=7527818534&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4559524562&category=43989

The last pump has a rated max vacuum of 100 microns (= 0.1 mm = 0.01% of atmospheric pressure - a pretty good vacuum) - offered for sale at:
http://www.toolweb.com/AutoBodySupp...299&cftoken=31649365&do=detail&partno=MTN8403

Happy hunting