Epson XP-600 and 800 series

[mikling]

I am currently testing how far the printer will print beyond the normal chip empty level. So to do this I am refilling BEFORE the optical sensor detects ink is empty.
The cartridges GULP ink ink. Just streaming the ink ink like how jtoolman shows on this video. http://www.precisioncolors.com/c10ainstruct.html works well and it actually "sucks" the ink back into the cartridge more aggressively. So in a few seconds you're done. So thus far the ONLY thing necessary as I can see is to just change out the chips...and maybe we won't need to. Other than that, this machine is simpler than anything to refill. As best as I can tell there is no real need for aftermarket refillable cartridges with this model.
The only optional investment is into a true large size pigment body but many won't bother I suspect.

I'll try doing a video on this. My Powershot S5is can do probably do it good enough.

 

[mikling]

By refilling the cartridge before empty, the printer was not fooled. So Epson is on the ball. So after a certain amount of count when the printer expects the chip to be empty, the printer overrides the optical sensor. So the logic is similar to Canon. If the printer physically sees the cartridge to be empty of ink via the optical prism BEFORE the chip is empty, it will trigger a fault by stating it does not recognize the cartridge and will request replacement. If the chip is used down to where it is normally empty but the printer still sees ink, it will continue to print some more (my estimate is around 20-25%). Beyond this point, it will have a countdown and despite seeing ink via the prism will still trigger an ink is depleted message and require a cartridge. At this point, the chip/cartridge needs to be reset or changed. Other than that, there is no need for aftermarket carts, the OEM ones refill by just dropping ink on it. As simple as it gets really. You will just need to change the chips to aftermarket ones which pop right onto the original mounts. Once that is done, anyone can refill these carts.

Refilling is so easy that I am sure that if you simply dipped outlet the pad into a pool of ink, the cartridge would refill itself. No kidding. It's the physics of the cartridge system like the PGI-9.

 

[joseph99929]

Thanks for the posts guys, all very interesting.

I have a question before attempting this on my own XP-600,

What inks would you use in there? I'm tempted to say a regular Durabrite pigment black and 4 regular Epson dyes.

But, the printhead interface is so different, I'm not even sure it's still a piezo printhead at all.

 

[mikling]

http://youtu.be/xRt7iHCyghk

 

[The Hat]

http://youtu.be/xRt7iHCyghk

A couple of questions please mikling.

How far can you safely let the cartridge ink levels go down to,
showing on screen ink monitoring, before it needs to be refilled again.

There comes a point where if you let the ink get to low you cant refill the cartridge at all, is that correct.

Do you know what the minimum weight is for the cartridge to be at and can still be refilled safely,
also do you know if there are compatible chips available for these cartridges.

Nice video by the way..

 

[mikling]

I have the chips, they are testing well.
If you let the cartridge run right down to empty, you will kick in "the valve" at the top left corner. I will show more pics when I edit the shoot. This allows a fraction of an ml. I have determined that this valve is to allow ALL the ink trapped in the bellows to head down to the bottom of the cartridge. The Canon PGI-9 does not do this. If this valve is activated repeatedly more and more air is ingested into the cartridge. That means each subsequent refill will be of lower and lower physical capacity. When the capacity drops too much we can get the air out the same way we do in the PGI-9. We fill the cartridge with ink and then draw the air using a freedom filler contraption constructed from the cartridge sealing cap..again like the PGI-9. This valve is technically a better design from an OEM standpoint because it allows all the ink to be used and non wasted but it is unfriendly to a degree to the refiller as it can slowly over time cut down on the capacity.

On the pigment black cartridge shown there is an alternate method of refilling that can be used and it involves a plug. But not from the top. nor sides. This also allows a method of removing the air as well.

On these cartridges, there is an optical prism. If the chip is not down to empty, but the ink is empty, the printer will stop. If the chip is empty but the prism shows ink, it will still allow more printing....just a bit though.

There are three models of cartridges in these printers. The starter, standard and XL. You will eventually see that the physical volumes of the starter is the same as the standard and XL. My feeling is that it is better to stick with the starter cartridges for the dye inks and get an XL for the pigment text size....but use a standard chip on the XL. The reason is that the chip will always exhaust itself BEFORE the inlet valve is triggered. This will totally prevent air from getting in and triggering the valve and allowing air in. For the 4 dye colors, the cartridges that come from the factory are underfilled. They can be overfilled and the standard chip used, again for stopping the triggering of the valve. The setup pigment cartridge is also FULLY useable and any air that goes in can be removed but that involves a plug.

I am now going to attempt to edit the video with captions etc and edit the picture shoot and combine all in one production.

 

[The Hat]

Thanks Mike for your invaluable information..

 

[websnail]

Breaking off slightly at a tangent I have to say I'm amazed at the level of duplication involved in this cartridge design when compared to the PGI-9's but as noted, it really is making life a LOT easier for us.

Anyway, coming back to the matter in hand... My own XP600 is on order now so I'll be digging into this and the waste ink side of things soon enough. What I'm curious about is whether the force fill method we discussed to death over the PGI-9 carts would be more applicable, especially in this instance as it seems the cartridges are designed not with a sponge but more of a membrane. I'm guessing at the moment so I'll take a closer look at the orange clips when they arrive but it does look likely that it might be.

One thing that has occurred to me though is whether there's some other trickery relating to that valve. To expand a bit... If you wanted to re-prime the cartridge you would need to create a vacuum in the cartridge which means plugging that vent/valve (we're assuming we can). It can't be left as a vacuum so ink would need to be injected in. The question I have hovering is whether the valve will then fail with ink presumably on both internal/external sides of the valve. Following on from that, would that then create problems with the cartridge?

All things to check out and the use of standard cartridges would seem to be the answer... The trouble there is that the replacement ARC's are likely to be of the XL capacity type based on the market history so you may still be in a "watch out for 20%" situation or similar.

As to the inks... I wonder if Epson will have gone standard black pigment (1082?) for the Black... The dyes seem to be using the Claria brand at least but comparable to the inks before? I guess we'll see.

Time to start stocking up on the Epson orange clips though that's for sure

 

[mikling]

Based on what I see and how the cartridge works, it would be better to stay away from XL chips. They are enticing, but they could be more pain than gain. The use of XL chips is going to certainly trigger that air inlet valve.

If the refiller so wants, they could pop the cover open and totally seal the top left valve hole with some hot melt glue. At that point, the cartridge would work identically to the PGI-9 and no air would ever enter. That I think is ideal but it carries some risk (small..depending on experience and skill) of damaging the bellows during the popping open of the cover.

 

[websnail]

Based on what I see and how the cartridge works, it would be better to stay away from XL chips. They are enticing, but they could be more pain than gain. The use of XL chips is going to certainly trigger that air inlet valve.

Couldn't argue with the logic there but the question is more whether the ARC manufacturers are going to realise that XL chips aren't ideal and produce standards instead... My guess is that that might not realise and/or care as the bulk of their natural ARC market is going to be on 3rd party refillable cartridges.

Is that what you're seeing with your chip suppliers or are they producing standards?

If the refiller so wants, they could pop the cover open and totally seal the top left valve hole with some hot melt glue. At that point, the cartridge would work identically to the PGI-9 and no air would ever enter. That I think is ideal but it carries some risk (small..depending on experience and skill) of damaging the bellows during the popping open of the cover.

I suspect there may be some mileage in pre-modified OEM cartridges with the chips if nought else.