Epson UltraChrome hierarchy/timeline?

[Ink stained Fingers]

I think what I’ll do is run down my K3 blacks then switch them all together to the HD set along with the yellow ink then re-profile my papers.

In think that's a good and reasonable approach you are taking here; I was told by another user of a 3880 that the newer black ink would make a visible difference, but again - it's not just the ink but it's always the combination of inks with a particular paper.

I am however a professional commercial photographer

You are invited to participate in the POW - picture of the week - thread with a few of your images if you like to show them here

https://www.printerknowledge.com/th...ion-and-submissions.9937/page-209#post-134303

 

[adrianlambert]

In think that's a good and reasonable approach you are taking here; I was told by another user of a 3880 that the newer black ink would make a visible difference, but again - it's not just the ink but it's always the combination of inks with a particular paper.

I guess there’s nothing I’ve seen out of the k3 inks that I’m disappointed with as such so even blacker blacks aren’t that much of a draw card. I would however like to suss out a good ABW workflow. This has so far alluded me. I’m still working from colour files and have in fact found that my ~1000 patch (with 256 grey patch) ArgyleCMS profile is giving me more neutral images than the ABW driver but obvs there’s a lot of colour ink on the paper still. I’ll explore the QTR ICC creation method for this when I have a bit of time. As for paper I naively ordered a few rolls of Hahnemuelhe Photo Baryta Silk which is fine to look at but turns out not regarded well for its longevity. I’m now looking into the Innova Art Editions papers.

You are invited to participate in the POW - picture of the week - thread with a few of your images if you like to show them here

https://www.printerknowledge.com/th...ion-and-submissions.9937/page-209#post-134303

Thanks for the invite. I’ll dig one out.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

Hahnemuelhe Photo Baryta Silk which is fine to look at but turns out not regarded well for its longevity

I tested a Hahnemühle Photo Glossy Baryta recently , it is not the best in regards to fading but still together with other papers in an acceptable range, tested with a dye ink, I don't know how that translates for prints with pigment inks, but I would not exclude that paper from using for its claimed low longevity since you are printing with pigment inks. If you like that paper just use it.

https://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/a-fading-test-of-inkjet-papers.15381/post-134342

The ABW mode does not claim to strictly use black or gray inks - it needs the colors for the toning effects - and mixing the grays as well. You are better off with another paper selection and the plain B/W - monochrome mode, use a microsope or a strong magnifier to see how many color pixel you can find for the different modes. The next step would be QTR, a set of B/W inks, special profiles etc, but I'm out of that.

I did some testing of the black level some time ago on a P400 - with various inks on several papers and got down to a L*=1.1 in one case. It was a Canon PFI-105 black which delivered better black levels than Epson inks - pigmented inks , but again - it all depends on the paper/ink combination - and like always, don't simply believe advertising statements like 'We have the blackest black ever - with a deeper black than the OEM ink' something like this by Conecolor - yes, it was pretty black - in some cases - but not better on some other papers than simple pigment blacks for Ecotank printers.

 

[adrianlambert]

I tested a Hahnemühle Photo Glossy Baryta recently , it is not the best in regards to fading but still together with other papers in an acceptable range, tested with a dye ink, I don't know how that translates for prints with pigment inks, but I would not exclude that paper from using for its claimed low longevity since you are printing with pigment inks. If you like that paper just use it.

Actually it was a bit of a pain in the backside in terms of paper curl even when using a de-curler plus how easily the surface could be scuffed. I have two unopened 17” rolls left. Not sure whether to use or sell. The biggest lesson is to stick to sheets. Plus it’s no longer available.

https://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/a-fading-test-of-inkjet-papers.15381/post-134342

The ABW mode does not claim to strictly use black or gray inks - it needs the colors for the toning effects - and mixing the grays as well. You are better off with another paper selection and the plain B/W - monochrome mode, use a microsope or a strong magnifier to see how many color pixel you can find for the different modes. The next step would be QTR, a set of B/W inks, special profiles etc, but I'm out of that.

What do you mean by plain B/W - monochrome mode? As I understand it ABW uses predominantly black inks plus a small amount of other colours to neutralise, warm or cool the image. The benefit is good longevity is it not? With the hdx ink and the right paper this could be a very stable combo for an ageing printer.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I hve seen some variations how Epson has implemented the ABW mode into the driver, I'm getting this with a ET8550 when selecting the color options for plain paper

I have 2 options - color or Grayscale, this Grayscale option uses the least amount of color inks to my experience but dithers the grays with the black and gray inks.

This mode does not offer many options - I can adjust contrast and brightness, and that's all. This mode does not let me correct a tint of the black ink which may vary by paper type .

If I select another paper type - Velvet - in this example I can use the 'Black and White Photo' mode

This mode let me adjust the tonality of the B/W print which requires the driver to use more of the color inks

You should see many more color dots under a magnifier when you look to such a print. This mode let you correct a tint as well caused by the paper which the grayscale mode cannot do.

It's the paper selection which gives you the option for one mode only - with the other mode grayed out.

I don't know how much different these driver options are to your 3880 driver.

 

[adrianlambert]

I hve seen some variations how Epson has implemented the ABW mode into the driver, I'm getting this with a ET8550 when selecting the color options for plain paper

View attachment 14255

I have 2 options - color or Grayscale, this Grayscale option uses the least amount of color inks to my experience but dithers the grays with the black and gray inks.

View attachment 14256

This mode does not offer many options - I can adjust contrast and brightness, and that's all. This mode does not let me correct a tint of the black ink which may vary by paper type .

If I select another paper type - Velvet - in this example I can use the 'Black and White Photo' mode

View attachment 14257

This mode let me adjust the tonality of the B/W print which requires the driver to use more of the color inks

View attachment 14258

You should see many more color dots under a magnifier when you look to such a print. This mode let you correct a tint as well caused by the paper which the grayscale mode cannot do.

It's the paper selection which gives you the option for one mode only - with the other mode grayed out.

I don't know how much different these driver options are to your 3880 driver.

Yeah my 3880 driver is quite different. Just a checkbox for ABW mode but then there is the screen that you shared last in your post with options for darker and warmer etc plus the ability to dial in a colour shift. I’ve not seen a grayscale option before in any of my epson drivers. Unfortunately the results from my ABW have been awful. It’s as the the tone curve is too steep and the shadows are getting clipped severely Although that’s on my R3000 with marrutt inks so I guess the inks must be quite different. Maybe I’ll try again on the 3880 but first I’ll try and get a profile from QTR. bit tricky as I have an i1studio which is a consumer device. Hard to get the numbers that the qtr needs. It’ll take a bit of research but I think ArgyllCMS will be the way forward.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I’ve not seen a grayscale option before in any of my epson drivers

I'm showing above the driver settings running on Win 10, which OS are you using ?

I Installed the 3880 driver, it offers either a 'Black' mode for some papers - plain paper etc or a 'Advanced B&W Mode' for photo papers etc.
Did you try the 'Black' mode yet ?

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

It appears to me that the driver does not let you use the simple 'Black' mode with any glossy photo paper, only with matte inkjet papers, that would indeed be a limitation. I don't know which paper(s) you are using predominantly.