Differences between dye/pigment technologies

[Paul Verizzo]

I think you are right about what used to be wide differences between dye and pigment technologies. Pigment printers keep adding cartridges, gloss optimizers, and similar in hopes of achieving the wider gamut, greater saturation, and higher Dmax of dye inks that the latter can use on any paper. The only advantage of pigment printing is print lifespan in bright light. In the meantime, dye inks keep getting better and better in terms of "real world" life span. By that I mean, how many people will want a print on their wall for over fifty years? In the dark, dye inks are good for 200-300 years. Good enough.

Yes, dye inks and their printers tend to be far less problematical every regard than pigment printers, especially Epsons with their piezo technology.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I think, it's not a matter of piezo bubble technology, HP or Canon offer as well dye and pigment inks on a variety of their products. Go through the Wilhelm Research Institute papers, 3rd party ink so far is far inferior to OEM dye inks, swellable papers for dye inks are better for ozone protection than the ubiquitous quick dry microporous papers, and it's not just UV radiation yellowing the pictures but as well the shorter wave length visible light, so filtering has a limited effect. But how is it possible to get OEM dye ink at a decent price for refill - buy Epson cartridges for the Epson Surelab drylab printers D700 and other - they use up to 700ml cartridges which can be tapped for refill into your own printer. Such ink comes at 20 or 30% the price of ink from smaller cartridges. If you rather tend to go with pigment inks, don't use a high(est) glossy paper but something like luster or silk which reduces very much the visible effects of bronzing and other reflection effects. I mean - if you have heavy reflections on a high gloss print you wouldn't see much of the actual picture anyway.

 

[The Hat]

I use dye and pigment inks just about every day and can't for the life of me figure out why some guys make such a fuss over which is the better one to use.

The idea that dye clogs less than pigment ink printers is pure hog wash because they simply don’t, why ? Well any printer left unused will eventually clog, except a Laser printer of course.

There are no set rules as to which paper to use either it’s all a matter of choice and the owner is supposed to be the master not the darn printer so you have the final say as which paper to print on, if you find a good quality paper then you use it.

There are issues regarding colour differential / bronzing when using pigment inks but they are way over rated because by changing the paper surface it can be eliminated without a trace, is there any other problem with using pigment ink ?

When it comes to dye ink, the darling of the inkjet world as it’s known for its ability to do just about everything for everybody, but wait a minute, the dye ink has far more problems associated with it that can’t be eliminated no matter what you with it.

So if you have both of the inks then you have the choice to use either one for whatever job you have in hand, and all of the issues that have been spoken about the two inks don’t seem to matter much because you can select the best ink which ever one it happens to be..

So the question still is: Which ink is the better of the two to use, answer: Well that can only be your choice.. !

 

[websnail]

The idea that dye clogs less than pigment ink printers is pure hog wash because they simply don’t, why ? Well any printer left unused will eventually clog, except a Laser printer of course.

*puts head above the parapet*
Actually that's not entirely true.

Yes dye and pigment ink printers can clog but they won't necessarily clog in the same way due to the physical properties of the inks themselves.

To be honest dye ink printers are relatively simple to declog (so long as the actual ink has clogged in the nozzles and it's not a cartridge ink flow issue). Pigment ink printers are a different issue. When they get clogged it's like cement when only an appropriate solvent is going to allow the whole lot to be flushed. Dyes tend to be water soluble so the solvent part is simpler and there's no particulates that don't disolve.

To put it another way I can get a dye ink printer clog sorted in about a day or two, even if the darned thing has been sat for a year without use and no cartridges. Take a pigment R1900 or an R2400 however and we're now into week 2 and they're still taking their sweet time to clear. It's happening but much slower.


Oh and just to add insult to injury, pigment inks and CIS systems can be a real challenge compared to dye inks (I'm talking Epson here obvously). What with ink settling, promotion of clogging, etc...

I shall now stand firm and await my fate (Goodbye cruel world!)

 

[stratman]

@websnail:

Great new avatar! Happy son and father.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

My Canon 9000 MK II sat for at least two years. Turned it on, put a piece of paper in it and ran a nozzle test. Perfect.

Try that, Mr. Epson.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

o.k., but that would be the least reason for me to buy a Canon printer. I could put some nozzle cleaner into refill cartridges and let every printer hibernate that way.

 

[Smile]

For me the EPSON micro banding (google images "epson banding" or "epson полосы на фото"), well not so micro if I can see it without magnifying glass really is strange kind of problem. It happens in new printers too. Pigment printers and dye printers like L800 suffer from it too, expensive printers like 3880 has it too.

Well I like the perfect round dots that piezo heads make, blows canon away. But I can't use photos with banding, the A6 paper makes this obvious as these photos are viewed up close.

My brother has no such evident problems and it's an supposedly office grade printer. Now why Brother doesn't make 6ink photo printers I don't know, but they really should. Now that I have a hold Brother manual I see that banding can be adjusted by entering some codes I try that and experiment. The codes are for turning on banding reduction for borderless prints, we all know borderless prints have tendency to have banding in having banding in leading and trailing edges on any printer except laser.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I'm wondering what's causing the banding, I don't see that with a variety of Epson printers in foto print mode, on plain paper with standard quality I don' care so much. Which direction is affected - in printhead movement or paper movement ?

Brother printers are indeed decent photo printers, they generate quite small droplets, like Canon - so you wouldn't really need light inks for dithering lighter colors. I'm replacing the pigment black with dye black ink with refill cartridges, and I'm printing with the paper setting matt/inkjet paper which uses the black ink, the glossy paper setting does not, it mixes black from C and M which doesn't get very dark, and shows a color tint. And I'm doing my own ICC profiles for the particular ink/paper/printer setting combination.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

o.k., but that would be the least reason for me to buy a Canon printer. I could put some nozzle cleaner into refill cartridges and let every printer hibernate that way.

No need to. K.I.S.S.

I wouldn't select a printer based on hibernation abilities, that's for sure. I've had to replace a few Canon heads along the way. Can't tell you in hindsight whether the problems were clogging, electrical, or the heaters burned out. But at least with a Canon, you can replace the head yourself instead of hauling your printer into an Epson service center and paying a lot of money. With later printers, the head alignment is automatic. You run the alignment, you don't even need to interpret lots of little rectangles as to which is the best one, like the old days.