CLI-526 cartridges don't fill up to 20 grams

[The Hat]

MP640

Did you ever think of switching to the see through cartridges instead of the opaque ones?
It would make refilling a breeze in comparison, been able to see the ink levels in each cart.

My two cent worth..

 

[stratman]

Either use the cartridge till the low ink warning occurs and then refill as usual, OR, flush the cartridge now as per my original post. You could also trash the cartridge and use a different cartridge, though I wouldn't yet until exhausting the suggestions I've made.

I had thought about The Hat's suggestion concerning using 220/221 cartridges that have a transparent window on the spongeless side to help visualize ink level. You wouldn't need to use your scale any more to refill but you would need to obtain the 220/221 cartridges and then swap chips onto them. It's easy but you may incur a cost to get the new cartridges. While a new cartridge will end your problems, it would not be any more helpful in determining your problem if the same symptoms occurred with the 220/221 cartridge because you still would not see inside the sponged side of the cartridge. You would still need to go through the same steps to diagnose and then fix the problem.

 

[joseph1949]

The following are my thoughts on MP640s problem(s) with filling his/her carts:

First things first, I use a Canon PIXMA MX870 that uses CLI-221C, M, Y, BK carts and a PGI-220BK cart. The carts have translucent ink reservoirs. I use the top-fill method to fill my carts.

Question to MP640: Could you please tell me how you know when to fill your carts? I could not find this in your posts.

1. Your procedure (german method) could be a bit off. You may want to describe in detail how you fill your carts. There are a number of people on this site that can help you if there is a problem with your procedure. It has been my experience (i.e. reading the posts on this site) that when a person has a problem with using the german method it can be a real pain to figure out what is wrong and then how to fix the problem.

You said that you have a Canon MG6150 printer. I believe that this printer has a clearance problem (i.e. the top of the cart(s) comes very close to the printers case). I believe this is the reason why you are using the german method (yes? no?). In any event, I suggest you keep using the german method. Using the top fill method will give you all sorts of problems with plugs being pulled from the carts (.i.e. the infamous clearance problem).

2. I suggest that you not fill the carts when they are empty. It is too easy to overfill the carts when you are filling empty carts. In my opinion, it will be best to fill the cart when the ink reservoir is empty or nearly empty. Since you are using opaque carts knowing when to fill a cart can be a bit perplexing. I would measure the volume of the reservoir and covert the volume into milliliters, and lastly, convert the milliliters into grams. You can use the printers amount-of-ink indicator to give you an idea when the ink reservoir is empty or nearly empty. On my printer I check my cart(s) when I see two (out of four) bars on the indicator screen. You will have to use the trial and error method to tell when a reservoir is empty. I would weigh the cart(s) about once a day (after there are two remaining bars) until you see the weight of cart(s) matches the weight of the cart with an empty reservoir. After doing this a number of times you probably only need to weigh the cart about once per week (depending on how many prints you make per day, week, etc.). If all this weighing is a pain you can do #3.

3. If weighing the carts is a pain I suggest you think about doing what The Hat says in his reply # 11. Also, please read what stratman has to say in reply #12. Switching over to translucent carts may solve your problem or it may not. In any event, converting to translucent carts will cost some money and it can be somewhat of a technical challenge (i.e. switching chips).


In conclusion, MP640, your problem could be simply trying to fill an empty cart which leads to overfilling problems. I believe if you only fill the ink reservoir your problems would disappear. If they do not disappear yours problems would be less severethink less is more!!!!!

Thank you.

 

[MP640]

Thank you Joseph for the time you take to help me with this. I appreciate it.

I will insert my remarks in your original text.
====

The following are my thoughts on MP640s problem(s) with filling his/her carts:

First things first, I use a Canon PIXMA MX870 that uses CLI-221C, M, Y, BK carts and a PGI-220BK cart. The carts have translucent ink reservoirs. I use the top-fill method to fill my carts.

Question to MP640: Could you please tell me how you know when to fill your carts? I could not find this in your posts.

===
I use a chip resetter to reset the chips prior to a refill. I refill (and reset) all carts when one of them has the low ink warning (one dash in the ink monitor and an exclamation mark).
===

1. Your procedure (german method) could be a bit off. You may want to describe in detail how you fill your carts. There are a number of people on this site that can help you if there is a problem with your procedure. It has been my experience (i.e. reading the posts on this site) that when a person has a problem with using the german method it can be a real pain to figure out what is wrong and then how to fix the problem.

===
I use the instructions for translucent cartidges I found on this forum posted by Pharmacist. Prior to the MG6150 I had an MP640 that I also refilled with the German method. From the weight of the cartridge I derive the amount of ink to refill (using 1g = 1 ml of ink). I refill with the cart upside down and after about 1/3 en 2/3 of the ink I turn it upside down en let rest for a minute.
===

You said that you have a Canon MG6150 printer. I believe that this printer has a clearance problem (i.e. the top of the cart(s) comes very close to the printers case). I believe this is the reason why you are using the german method (yes? no?). In any event, I suggest you keep using the german method. Using the top fill method will give you all sorts of problems with plugs being pulled from the carts (.i.e. the infamous clearance problem).

===
Yes, there is a clearance problem, same as with the MP640. With my 640, I used my Dremel tool to cut out all the plastic covers that caused the clearance problem. I didn't want to do that with the MG6150 right away for warranty reasons. I ordered ink from Octoinkjet and didn't feel good about the recessed plugs, so that's why I decided to go for the German method.
===


2. I suggest that you not fill the carts when they are empty. It is too easy to overfill the carts when you are filling empty carts. In my opinion, it will be best to fill the cart when the ink reservoir is empty or nearly empty. Since you are using opaque carts knowing when to fill a cart can be a bit perplexing. I would measure the volume of the reservoir and covert the volume into milliliters, and lastly, convert the milliliters into grams. You can use the printers amount-of-ink indicator to give you an idea when the ink reservoir is empty or nearly empty. On my printer I check my cart(s) when I see two (out of four) bars on the indicator screen. You will have to use the trial and error method to tell when a reservoir is empty. I would weigh the cart(s) about once a day (after there are two remaining bars) until you see the weight of cart(s) matches the weight of the cart with an empty reservoir. After doing this a number of times you probably only need to weigh the cart about once per week (depending on how many prints you make per day, week, etc.). If all this weighing is a pain you can do #3.

===
From your information I learn that refilling empty cartidges can cause problems. Is information available on the correlation between ink level monitor bars and ink reservoir filling? Or do I have to determine this myself. It looks like with one bar the reservoir is already empty? I don't print that much, so refilling when one cartridge has 2 bars would not be a burden to me.
Come to think of it, both cartridges that gave problems had one bar left on the ink level monitor. The others all had two or more.
===

3. If weighing the carts is a pain I suggest you think about doing what The Hat says in his reply # 11. Also, please read what stratman has to say in reply #12. Switching over to translucent carts may solve your problem or it may not. In any event, converting to translucent carts will cost some money and it can be somewhat of a technical challenge (i.e. switching chips).

===
I do have 2 sets of translucent cartridges from my MP640 laying around. I consider using these. I did replace chips before, so that would not be a problem. I only must find instructions on how to flush these cartridges as they have not been used for quite some time (plus I need one extra for the grey ink). I think I can find instructions on this forum as well.
People talk about the cost of acquiring used translucent cartridges. Maybe I can contribute with how I did it. Where I live, there are charity organizations that collect empty inkjet cartridges. I contacted one of these organizations and asked them how much they got per cartridge. It was 50 cents, so I offered them 1 euro per cartridge. They were happy and I got 2 sets for 10 euro.
===


In conclusion, MP640, your problem could be simply trying to fill an empty cart which leads to overfilling problems. I believe if you only fill the ink reservoir your problems would disappear. If they do not disappear yours problems would be less severethink less is more!!!!!

Thank you.

 

[PeterBJ]

I refill the windowed PGI-520/CLI-521 cartridges using German refill method and SquEasyFill bottles with a 2" 21g sharp needle. Even if the cartridges are windowed I check the weight after refill to make sure the cartridge is refilled properly. I have also experienced cartridges missing a couple of grams after refill.

As I fill the ink chamber completely, the sponge must be missing some ink. This makes stratman's suggestion #2 in post #2 plausible. I think the reason could also be that the sponges are not resaturated during the rest period after first injection of ink due to a restriction between the chambers. I think the problem could be similar to the magenta inkflow problem here: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=7744 .An airlock in the channel connecting the ink chamber and the sponge chamber was the cause of the problem.

I have noticed that some times times it takes a long time for the ink level to start dropping during the resting period. I think It might be better to stand the cartridge on end with the ink chamber facing upwards, as shown in pharmacist's photo #10 http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=4315 and also tap the cartridge to make sure no air is trapped in the ink channel between the chambers.

With the windowed cartridges you can check if ink enters the sponges during the resting period, so I recommend using the windowed cartidges after flushing and drying. For sealing after flushing I would recommend using the low profile silicone plugs and alumin(i)um tape from websnail or mikling. I think the addition of alumin(i)um tape makes the seal very secure. You could also use a freedom refill adapter for purging the cartridges. With that you don't need to open the seal on the cartridge for flushing.

In case an opaque cartridge is underweight after refill, I would recommend tapping it against a table with the ink chamber pointing up and letting it rest for 5-10 minutes in the same position and then try if more ink can be added.

MP640 wrote:
I refill the cartridge in the upside down position (opposite position as it is in the printer) and every now and then I turn it over to allow the ink to be absorbed by the sponge.

I wonder if this could be the cause of the problems. You could try to allow the cartridge to rest in the normal position or vertical with the ink chamber facing upwards for at least 5 minutes before continuing with the refill.

Next week-end I will be refilling a set of PGI-520/CLI-521 cartridges. I will observe the sponge resaturation very carefully and report if I find some problems.

 

[joseph1949]

To: MP640

Thank you for your reply.

I will be addressing your questions by describing in detail how I would fill a cart.
If there are any questions after reading my procedure please feel free to ask questions.

My procedure is based on the premise that you (MP650) are trying to put 10 pounds in a 5 pound bag.

Here are the following assumptions:

1. I am using opaque carts.

2. I have a scale for weighing carts.

3. I have a syringe.

4. A color cart with ink weighs 20 grams.

5. The cart holds 9 ml (9 grams) of ink

6. The ink reservoir for a color cart holds 4 ml (4 grams).

7. I am using the german method to fill carts.

8. I will be using the ink monitor to tell me when to fill the cart. If I did not use the monitor I would have to weigh the cart on a daily basis.


My procedure:

1. When I see the low-ink icon on the ink level monitor I take out the cart and weigh it.

Note: I suggest that you weigh each cart until you are comfortable with what each cart should weigh when you see the low-ink icon. You can (or could) think that there is no need to weigh each cart after you have weighed each cart a few times. But one cannot assume that a cart should weigh a certain weight when you see the low-ink icon. I would write down the weight of each cart at least ten times before I would assume the weight of the cart. Do not assume that the low-ink icon will come on with the loss of the same amount of ink each time.

2. The weight of the cart is 13 grams. This means you have used 7 grams of ink.
You have 2 grams of ink left in the cart.

3. How much ink should you place into the cart? MP640, based on your 10 pounds in a 5 pound bag thinking you would place 7 grams of ink into the cart. I would place only 3 grams (3 ml) into the cart. This is my better safe than sorry theory in filling carts. If you place 7 grams (7 ml) of ink into the cart you will (in my opinion) overfill the cart. This is why you are seeing ink coming from the air vent. My thinking is that you will not even fill (with 3 ml) the reservoir with ink. This will keep you out of trouble (i.e. no overfill problems) until you learn just how much ink to add without overfilling.

After you have filled carts with 3 ml of ink and see no ink coming from the air vent and see no ink (constant) dripping from the ink outlet you can start to fill the carts with 3.5 ml of ink and then 4 ml, etc. You can increase the amount of ink into the cart until you see ink coming from the air vent/constant ink dripping from the ink outlet and then you should back off. I would never add more than 7 ml of ink. In fact, adding 7 ml is pressing your luck. You probably will have ink coming out of the air vent and ink will drip out of the ink outletremember less is more.

4. Place 3 ml of ink into a syringe and inject the ink into the cart by way of the fill hole (german method).

Note: MP640, you mentioned that you use Pharmacists procedure (german method) in filling your carts. Since I use the top fill method I cannot give you an expert opinion if Pharmacist is correct or not. But based on my reading of other peoples opinions who do use the german method, Pharmacists procedure is the one you should follow. With that said, every time I read Pharmacists procedure I get the hives. When you use Pharmacists procedure you put the cart through all sorts of gyrations. I am surprised that you do not have to stand on your head when filling a cart when using his procedure. When I use my procedure (top fill method) I fill the cart in the horizontal (as it is in the print head) position. The cart stays in this position until I cover the fill hole with hot glue.

5. After you have filled the cart with 3 ml of ink place a piece of aluminum tape or use hot glue (by way of my coin/paper disc method) over the hole. Some people say you do not have to cover the hole. Your call.

6. Remove the tape over air vent (if there) and remove the orange cap. When this is done keep the cart in the horizontal position for five minutes. If after five minutes there is no ink coming from the air vent and/or ink dripping from the ink outlet you can place the cart in the print head. If there is ink dripping from the outlet this is not a problem if the dripping stops in a few seconds. If the dripping does not stop and because this was done by the german method I cannot tell you what could be the problem. You can talk to people on this site for help in this situation. If you have ink coming from the air vent this is a sign (in my opinion) that you have overfilled the cart or there is another problem. Using a tissue you can remove the ink from the air vent and place the cart in the print head. It would be smart to keep an eye out for the cart leaking inside the cart.

7. If you want to be super anal (like me) you can place the cart in the print head and wait overnight (8 hours) before making a nozzle test or making a print. The 8 hours gives the cart time to stabilize!!!!!!!!!


MP640, I hope the above procedure will give you some insight on what could be your problem and how to solve your problem.

Thank you.

 

[MP640]

Joseph, thanks again for your ongoing help. I copy/pasted your last post in a Word document to save it for future reference.

I think we're getting there. You are right about your assumption that I'm trying to get 7 grams of ink in the cartridge (following your example with the 13 gram cartridge). It is my assumption that I must always get the original 9 ml (grams) of ink in the cartridge when refilling. This assumption is based om my understanding of how the ink monitoring system works. Let me explain.

The chips on the cartridge counts the number of ink drops that are fired by the printer. The chip knows approximately how many drops can be fired with a full cartridge. During the lifecycle of the cartridge, when the amount of ink in the cartridge decreases, the chip will inform the ink monitor about the ink level (based on the number of fired drops) and the monitor will know how many bars to display. When the chip determines the cartridge is empty it will inform the ink monitor and 'shut down' the cartridge (unless the ink monitor is overridden).

Based on the above paragraph, assuming it was correct, I concluded that when I do not refill the cartridge completely (7 grams, agasin following your example) there would eventually be a problem. After resetting the chip, it would assume it had the amount of drops for 9 ml but in fact there would be less drops. this means that the cartridge would be empty and the chip would still think there were drops available. This would result in printing with an empty cartridge and possibly ruining the printhead.

I wouldn't mind at all refliing only 3 ml instead of 7 (would be a lot faster too), but my assumption would prohibit this. Maybe my understanding of the working of the ink level monitor is wrong which makes my assumption invalid. This would at the same time yield the solution for the problem. Inject less ink.

 

[The Hat]

As far as the ink levels go joseph1949, PeterBJ and stratman have given you some good advice so I will give some as well.
Firstly you are doing most things right so dont be too concerned that you have the odd hiccup, this can happen to anyone.

Follow their advice on how much ink to put into your cartridges (less is more) dont over fill
and forget about just how the printer and chip calculates the ink droplets left either.

Because Canon sets a level which airs on the side of caution so when the printer shows the low ink warning
there is in fact still quite a bit of ink left in the their cartridges.

To avoid any problems regarding your ink levels just replace a cartridge when the LOW ink
warning first appears and youll have no more problems again because there still will be enough
ink left inside your own refilled cartridge to be safe..