CISS for Canon MX860 or HP Photosmart Premium 309a?

[fastscud]

Hi,

Does anyone here have experience using CISS for either the Canon MX860 or the HP Photosmart Premium 309a? If so, could you kindly tell us which CISS you're using and what you think of it please?

Also, is it true that CISS doesn't work properly with pigmented inks? ie. cartridges that use pigmented inks will be replaced with dye-based ones if using CISS?

thanks a lot, cheers.

 

[pharmacist]

Do not use CISS on these types of printers: sooner or later it will be disappointing... Only Epson printers will get good results with CISS systems.

Can you use pigment inks ? Yes you can, but one should take care to use good quality ones. CISS sellers seem to cut costs by replacing the pigment text black with cheaper dye inks...

 

[fastscud]

Hi Pharmacist,

Thanks for the reply.

Do not use CISS on these types of printers: sooner or later it will be disappointing... Only Epson printers will get good results with CISS systems.

Can you explain why only the Epson ones get good results from CISS please?

And which Epson printer is similar to the MX860 / Photosmart 309a that you'd recommend to use with CISS? The key features for me are:

- duplex printing (preferably still using pigmented ink black cartridge when printing b&w)
- auto duplex scanning of double-sided source documents
- borderless copying / scanning
- auto document feeder
- networked, and perferably fax and wireless capable

And is there any down-side to use Epson compared to the equivalent Canon / HP? eg. higher ink usage, shorter print head life etc?

Can you use pigment inks ? Yes you can, but one should take care to use good quality ones. CISS sellers seem to cut costs by replacing the pigment text black with cheaper dye inks...

Do you mean there is no technical reason for not using pigmented inks in CISS? ie. it won't increase the probability of clogging when compared to dye-based inks? (I remember reading somewhere that that's a common issue with CISS, so they don't come with pigmented inks ... hopefully that's wrong)

Finally, is there any particular CISS that you recommend with an Epson?

Thanks again for your time, very enlightening!

 

[pharmacist]

Fastcud,

do no expect me to answer all your questions: all these can be found on this forum and look around on the internet. About the fuctionalities of the printers you mentioned: just look on the manufacturers' website. The problem is pigment ink it can clog the purging pad overtime, but I think it has to do with the type of pigment ink used.

 

[thanhhuy123]

For the same set of features, HP is cheaper compared to an Epson printer.

I comfirm that Epson is a prefer when combine with a CISS, because of its printhead tech.

Pigmented ink with CISS is possible BUT with some further efforts that might be very...

Downside of Epson? Lower res, comsume a little bit more ink when doing maintainance, ink cartridges with stupid design and chip, and expensive.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

The C309a uses pigment black ("black") for text, dye for colors, and dye ("photo black") for photographs. It's generally considered foolhardy to substitute. Pigment ink is likely to clog the head unless the head is designed for pigment. But go ahead and try it if you want. It's only money--and a printer.

See this and followingposts: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=40549#p40549 for more info.

There are some reports on this forum of CIS use on a C309a. There's a detailed thread, with pictures. I don't know how it did in the long run, but the guy was happy at the time. Generally, Epson is considered much better adapted than Canon and HP for CIS use, I think mainly for mechanical reasons.

 

[PeterBJ]

ThrillaMozilla wrote:

...Generally, Epson is considered much better adapted than Canon and HP for CIS use, I think mainly for mechanical reasons.

I agree, see this post for a picture of an Epson print head and note the inlet spikes or pipes. A gasket in the ink outlet of the ink cartridge provides a secure seal, making it suitable for CISS application. Link to the post: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=65728#p65728

See this post for pictures of a Canon print head. The HP print heads that use HP 564 cartridges are very similar. The print head to cartridge interface is contact only, relying on capillary forces for ink transfer. A rubber grommet prevents air entering the print head during use. This system is what make Canon and HP printers much less suitable for CISS use, as the CISS tubing causes mechanical stress to the cartridges, leading to problems with unwanted air intake, and possibly other problems. Link to the post here here: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=62770#p62770

mikling has this thread about a new series of Epson printers.: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=8871 . In this new printer series Epson changed the print head to ink cartridge interface to something that is very Canon like, possibly to make the use of a CISS much more difficult!

So thanhhuy123 I would not recommend the use of a CISS with the HP printer. Instead I recommend refilling OEM and only OEM cartridges with a good refill ink for HP, or for Canon if ink for Canon is easier to obtain.

Some manufacturers of refill ink and compatible cartridges for Canon use the dye black for pigment black. This causes no problems with a Canon printer, the cartridges don't leak, unless their design and/or manufacture is inferior. Many Canon Pixma 4000 print heads were ruined by too cheap Ebay pigment cartridges that clogged them. The solution chosen by the manufacturers was often to replace the pigment ink with dye ink. The use of pigment ink for text printing on plain paper has the benefits of a sharper and more waterproof printing.

Never use pigment ink instead of dye ink in a print head not designed for pigment ink. It will clog the print head and possibly ruin it. Using dye ink instead of pigment ink is permissible. Some Canon and HP printers use two black cartridges, one with pigment ink for text printing only and one with dye black for photo printing. You can use dye black in the pigment black cartridge, but you cannot use pigment black in the dye (Photo) black cartridge.