Chromalife 100+ inks in old 100 carts?

[Paul Verizzo]

I've poked around here, doing lots of searches, and I couldn't find a thread that approached my (today's) burning question. What happens if you replace the Chromalife 100 ink in a clean CLI-8 cartridge with the Chromalife 100+ ink?

The closest I found was this post from Hat four years ago: http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/canon-pro-100-cartridges.7242/#post-55510

While he couldn't run the carts due to the chip, and apparently he didn't swap chips, he did observe that although the inks, yellow especially, looked quite different, they appeared the same on touch to paper testing. I realize that in the subleties of actual use, that may not be the realities.

OTOH, if I can get 3X the life (Canon's claim by comparison) for the hassle of tweaking some profiles, or even buying new ones, I wouldn't have to buy a newer printer and go through the hassles of selling my old ones.

BTW, I noticed that MIS still doesn't handle this ink. Odd, since in theory both Precision Color and MIS both source to IS. Am I mistaken? Maybe Mike is just braver.........

Oh, yeah, any Wilhelm tests on the 100+? Again, I looked around the intertubes a lot, couldn't find anything. He sure does love himself pigment inks. Jus' saying.

 

[RogerB]

I've poked around here, doing lots of searches, and I couldn't find a thread that approached my (today's) burning question. What happens if you replace the Chromalife 100 ink in a clean CLI-8 cartridge with the Chromalife 100+ ink?

The closest I found was this post from Hat four years ago: http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/canon-pro-100-cartridges.7242/#post-55510

While he couldn't run the carts due to the chip, and apparently he didn't swap chips, he did observe that although the inks, yellow especially, looked quite different, they appeared the same on touch to paper testing. I realize that in the subleties of actual use, that may not be the realities.

OTOH, if I can get 3X the life (Canon's claim by comparison) for the hassle of tweaking some profiles, or even buying new ones, I wouldn't have to buy a newer printer and go through the hassles of selling my old ones.

BTW, I noticed that MIS still doesn't handle this ink. Odd, since in theory both Precision Color and MIS both source to IS. Am I mistaken? Maybe Mike is just braver.........

Oh, yeah, any Wilhelm tests on the 100+? Again, I looked around the intertubes a lot, couldn't find anything. He sure does love himself pigment inks. Jus' saying.

Not quite sure exactly what you're proposing here. I thought The Hat said that the cartridges were physically identical but with different chips. That means in theory you could change the chips to use Chromalife 100+ in place of Chromalife 100 and maybe get better fade resistance. I believe that one of the reasons that the 100+ performs so much better in the light fade tests is that the black ink is greatly improved, and no longer fades to red after a relatively short light exposure. However, I think you would also need to use the two grey inks to get maximum benefit. The grey inks have good fade resistance and these replace some of the colour inks in low-chroma tones in colour prints. Lower use of the less stable colour inks means better fade resistance.

So, it may be possible to use 100+ in place of 100, but it wouldn't be straightforward. I think you would need a RIP to drive the hybrid in order to make use of the greys in the correct way.

And this is where I get confused; you go on to talk about third-party inks that are "equivalent" to OEM inks and seem to assume that third-party "Chromalife 100+" will give longer life than third-party "Chromalife 100". The fact is that the fading of third-party inks bears no relation to the fading of the OEM inks that they claim to replicate. But nobody claims that third-party inks are OEM inks in big bottles.

You say that you can't find any results on the Wilhelm site for the (genuine) Chromalife 100+ and you may well be right. However, you will find results (albeit for light fade only) on the Aardenburg Imaging site http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/index.html. These results show the big difference between the 100 and the 100+. Aardenburg also has results for a few third-party dye inks and the results for them range from very poor to poor. Two of these third-party dyes are "equivalent to" Epson Claria, but they are 10X worse than Claria 79 for light fading. Not saying that all third-party dyes are this bad but until there are some definitive independent test results I would be a bit careful.

I suggest that if you want the very good fade resistance of Chromalife 100+ there is only one guaranteed way to get it - buy a Pro-100 (or two) and use OEM ink.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

@RogerB, I think you are making something very complicated out of a couple of straightforward questions: Has anyone done this? Did it work? To what degree, or to what degree didn't it? Way off kilter color? Viscosity issues?

Gray inks don't even enter into the equation. After all, some of the consumer MG series photo printers don't use grays.

As to if, say, Precision Colors inks are not as sure fire good as the OEM's, well, that's true whatever the ink family is. I have two options: buy less than $30 worth of inks including black from PC, or double that for the real deal from Canon. If it were to work in my iP4500, I'd then move the cartridges to my 9000 MK II and add black and the photo colors.

Using CLI-8 carts there's no reason to dick around with the CLI-42 chips, etc.

A hell of a lot cheaper than a new printer, even the ones on eBay, usually w/o head and/or inks. And then I'd have to dispose of my 9000, too.

Besides, it's the kind of thing I like to experiment with and while at it sticking it to "the man." Like any of us do whenever we refill a cartridge.

 

[RogerB]

@RogerB, I think you are making something very complicated out of a couple of straightforward questions: Has anyone done this? Did it work? To what degree, or to what degree didn't it? Way off kilter color? Viscosity issues?

Gray inks don't even enter into the equation. After all, some of the consumer MG series photo printers don't use grays.

As to if, say, Precision Colors inks are not as sure fire good as the OEM's, well, that's true whatever the ink family is. I have two options: buy less than $30 worth of inks including black from PC, or double that for the real deal from Canon. If it were to work in my iP4500, I'd then move the cartridges to my 9000 MK II and add black and the photo colors.

Using CLI-8 carts there's no reason to dick around with the CLI-42 chips, etc.

A hell of a lot cheaper than a new printer, even the ones on eBay, usually w/o head and/or inks. And then I'd have to dispose of my 9000, too.

Besides, it's the kind of thing I like to experiment with and while at it sticking it to "the man." Like any of us do whenever we refill a cartridge.

Well, you asked a few questions and since nobody else was responding I thought I would. As for making things complicated, if you really think that using a Pro-100 ink set in a 9000 is not complicated then all I can say is "good luck", and let us know how it works out.

 

[3dogs]

@Paul Verizzo

Reading your OP and @RogerB 's reply, I think that he is not complicating a simple question because the appropriate reply...based on your assertion that he is complicating a simple answer would seem to be

Don't know!
Really! so what does that have to do with anything?
Be strong, just do it!
Well don't!
You don't always
Not sure!
Seems not if you couldn't find anything......

Try it yourself, and let us know how you get on...............

Now THAT is keeping things simple, Fact is you got a lot of good pointers in RogerB's answer, you may not like the answers you get always, but he has put effort into responding in a useful way to my mind.
Oh! and whilst I am waxing Lyrical, might have been a whole lot smarter to ask WHY grey ink, you, and I may have learned a whole lot more of real use from the answer..........and then a question directed to @TheHat about his endeavours may also have brought another wealth of information forward for our edification, I am in hopes that he still will.

On the other hand if its long life you are after, take a leaf out of @Smile conclusions, don't use Dye, it doesn't last, its that simple, you need a pigment printer...... very simple answer but absolutely an extraordinary oversimplification.

This is not intended as rude or crude, I'm just keeping it simple, and as you see if you re- read, it contains very little of value to you for that reason..............well maybe a wee thing, not THAT important, "we need to take care how much cold water we pour on the answers folks take the trouble to draft for our benefit, and assistance, 'cos they may not do it again as we have already seen recently" This is intended as a satire, and I suspect one I need to take heed of myself, at times...... maybe even here and now.

I'm not going to add smilies and things 'cos that would complicate things, and folks may be deceived into thinking I am not in deadly earnest on this.

 

[The Hat]

I found it very difficult if not impossible to respond to @Paul Verizzo post because it simply was going nowhere and just didn’t make any logical sense to me, hence my earlier silence.

It’s quite simple you can use any OEM dye ink in any Canon printer but be prepared for inconsistencies in the output, nobody I know would go to that expense to achieve nothing..

 

[Paul Verizzo]

Well, you asked a few questions and since nobody else was responding I thought I would. As for making things complicated, if you really think that using a Pro-100 ink set in a 9000 is not complicated then all I can say is "good luck", and let us know how it works out.

Good intentions duly noted!

 

[Paul Verizzo]

@3dogs:
Don't know!
Really! so what does that have to do with anything?
Be strong, just do it!
Well don't!
You don't always
Not sure!
Seems not if you couldn't find anything......

Love it! That's what I call succinct.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

I found it very difficult if not impossible to respond to @Paul Verizzo post because it simply was going nowhere and just didn’t make any logical sense to me, hence my earlier silence.

It’s quite simple you can use any OEM dye ink in any Canon printer but be prepared for inconsistencies in the output, nobody I know would go to that expense to achieve nothing..

Inconsistencies I'm prepared for, as posted. A not terribly expensive experiment, found a source on eBay, all 8 colors, 30ml each, for $20. Figure I'll flush some cartridges and give it a whirl.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/8x30ml-cartridge-CLI-42-refill-dye-ink-For-Canon-Pixma-Pro-100-/111517956858

 

[Paul Verizzo]

Oh, as a possibly interesting FYI, Image Specialists doesn't appear to make the ChromaLife 100+ inks. Their website cannot match to either printer or cartridge. So, where PC and Ink Source Direct gets their inks is another story, I guess.