Canon Pixma MP750 for only $99.99

[Nifty]

Great information guys, thanks!

I tend to agree with Grandad that inconsistencies in the print would be due to issues other than the quantity of ink in the cartridge, things like cartridge & ink quality that will effect ink delivery.

BTW, Grandad, one thing you didn't mention in your post was how you refill these cartridges once "at least one of them is completely empty and the prijnter refuses to print." Are you still vacuum refilling, or are you pressure refilling, or simply injecting ink into the reservoir? There has been lengthy discussions regarding air getting pulled into the sponge when a cart runs dry. From what I remember it was discussed that it was necessary to either top off these cartridges often, or refill in a way that would remove air pockets.

 

[Grandad35]

Rob,

Somewhere around the beginning of June I hot water purged my complete set of carts, made sure that the sponges were in the right place and switched to Formulabs bulk ink (all done at the same time). I have done nothing but refill in the conventional manner since that time. The ink now flows into the sponge chamber so freely on some carts (e.g. the "Wired Beans" carts) that, when I tip the cart forward by 30 degrees for 10 seconds or so to get the air bubble to the back of the ink chamber so that it can be topped off with ink, some ink flows out of the vent port on the top of the sponge chamber. Even on the worst cart, tipping it forward for 30 seconds almost completely fills the sponge. I have not had to discard any cart for any reason (other than the ones that I cut apart to get photos) since I bought the printer in February - they all refill without problem.

I was the one who came up with the vacuum refill technique, but that was when the carts were not allowing ink to flow freely from the ink chamber into the sponge chamber. However, there have been some many changes in my ink and technique that I can't say for sure what made the difference. What I can say is that I started keeping detailed records on July 2. Since that time, I have printed the equivalent of 536 8x10 color photos and changed 47 (empty or low) carts. During that time, I have not had to run a single cleaning cycle or seen a single issue with banding or anything else related to an ink delivery problem. When I change a cart now, I don't even bother to make sure that the prints look OK before printing a multiple page run.

 

[Nifty]

When I change a cart now, I don't even bother to make sure that the prints look OK before printing a multiple page run.

Folks, that statement by Grandad is the pinnacle of cartridge refilling!!

I've still got a bit of trepidation about letting my cartridges run "dry" and not "topping off" but your statements have me wanting to give it a try.

Thanks Grandad!

 

[Osage]

Well, lets see.

Granddad used 47 cartridges to print the equivalent of 536 8x10 color photographs.

I assume he is using BCI-6 size color cartridges. Had granddad done what Canon wanted he would have paid $11.99 times 47 or $563.63 for the ink and littered landfills with the empties. Which also works out to $1.05 per 8x10 print Canon list price.

A little higher than the eighty cents the April/05 issue of consumer reports published.
for the Canon ip4000 and 5000 or the ninety five cents for the i8500 using Canon
OEM cartridges. Of course the sometimes replaces cartridges when low throws in a bit of a joker to these figures or maybe granddads prints are just more colorful than most.

Of course we all know granddad's cost is in the ink alone which is perhaps the only a forgotten detail to complete a costs figure in the refill world. Don't know if this an an absolute pinnacle but it does show what an ink jet printer can do in the hands of an informed consumer. That granddad shares his knowledge shows his value, the value of these forums, and when granddad speaks I listen. Lots to learn.

 

[Grandad35]

I've still got a bit of trepidation about letting my cartridges run "dry" and not "topping off" but your statements have me wanting to give it a try.

Rob,

Remember that I listed a number of things that I have done to achieve this performance. If your carts are clogged with glop, don't expect to get the same performance. The same goes for sloppy storage of refilled/empty carts, using a bulk ink that is prone to clogging the filter/sponge, etc.

Osage,

Thanks for the kind words.

My i9900 uses (8) BCI-6 carts. I replace any cart that is low or has less than 1.5 mm of ink in the ink chamber when another cart is "empty", but only because this procedure actually increases the number of prints that you can get from a given number of carts, even if you use OEM carts. This is because the printer automatically runs an extended cleaning cycle every time that any cart is changed, and this cycle pulls enough ink from every cart that a "low" cart will often become "empty" during the cleaning cycle, before anything is printed. If a second cart becomes empty during this time, it must be replaced and yet another cleaning cycle will be run, wasting even more ink.

As to my color usage, I process everything in Photoshop and adjust the lighting "levels" to maximize the tonal differences and give each image its maximum "pop". I also print a lot of skin tones (grandchildren), and this uses a lot of PM. This obviously increases my ink usage compared to someone who prints subdued colors. Also, any printer that uses PM and PC will use more ink than a printer that only uses magenta and cyan. It is easy to explain variations in ink consumption because of these types of differences.

 

[panos]

Grandad,

I am now waiting for the 5th cartridge to run empty just to get it refilled with a new simple vacuum refill method and post the details and photographs on the forum.

But after (re)reading your vacuum refill technique and your water-based sponge cleaning method I had this idea:

What would happen if you took a used OEM cartridge without any drilled holes, sealed the breathing hole and reversed your water-based cleaning procedure as to withdraw air and return ink ?

Consider this image: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/media/CartConn.jpg but upside-down (flipped) and with a large syringe with 30 ml of ink attached to the tube on the top. The procedure would go as this:

1) Pull the syringe. Air is withdrawn (sucked) from the cartridge

2) Let the syringe to gently return to equalize pressure. This time ink will get into the cartridge (since ink is heavier than air and it sits at the bottom of the syringe).

3) Repeat. Although some ink will be drawn from the cartridge, again it will be mostly air that will be sucked out since air is lighter than ink and it will try to stay atop of the cartridge.

After some repeats the cartridge may be completely full.

Since you already have the equipment, could you give this a try?

 

[Grandad35]

Panos,

Have you seen this link (http://nifty-stuff.com/docs/inkrefill.php)? In particular, watch the mpeg clip (http://www.nifty-stuff.com/gallery/albums/inkjet-2/VL2_RefillPM.mpg). In this example, a vacuum of about 25 inches (635 mm) removed about 83% of the air from the jar and cart before the ink was allowed to be pulled back in. I subsequently got a better hand vacuum pump that removed up to 90% of the air, and the ink chamber could be filled almost to the top. Note that the sponge chamber fills first, then the ink chamber, when vacuum filling through the exit port.

I understand what you are trying to do with the syringe filled with ink, and the ink should fill the sponge chamber after a few cycles on the syringe. I suspect that you will have to allow some time between cycles to allow the air to get to the top of the sponge and for the ink to get to the bottom of the sponge. You can have a problem getting an acceptable seal on the vent port - this was sometimes a problem for me even with the entire rig in a vacuum jar. If the seal wasn't perfect, it was easier for air to be drawn into the vent hole than to pull ink through the filter, so the cart only partially filled. Your main problem, however, will be how to get the ink into the ink chamber, just as it was for me. Your best chance will be to pull the vacuum with the cart's exit port at the top, then turn the cart over so that some ink will also be pulled into the ink chamber from the sponge as soon as the syringe is released. This will probably have to be repeated a number of times to fill the ink chamber and will be tricky, as the tubing connecting the syringe to the cart will have to take a 180 degree bend and will tend to pull off the cart. Look closely at the refill rig described in the the first link - it functions almost exactly as you describe if you think of putting the cart inside of a large syringe with ink at the bottom and has the advantage that the entire cart is filled in a single step.

Now that I have my "refill workflow" (as discussed in the previous posts) working so well, it is so much easier than anything that I tried that I haven't pursued any vacuum tests in months. It only takes a few seconds to remove the stainless steel screw plugging the refill hole (cordless drill to remove, manual screwdriver to reinstall to prevent stripping the threads), and it is hard to beat the speed, reliability and simplicity of the conventional refill process.

The reason that I worked on the vacuum method in the first place was that the ink would not flow from the ink chamber into the sponge and the carts were starving the ink pickup. The thought at that time was that if the air could be removed from the sponge that the ink would saturate the sponge and be pulled from the ink chamber by the surface tension in the ink. The problem turned out to be a buildup of "glop" in the sponge and filter, and the steps listed in post #42 above corrected the problem.

 

[websnail]

Watching this thread with interest now as it undoutedly helps me as well when it comes to resolving CIS issues too...

Couple of question for you though...

When this printer arrived it came without the print cartridges (without me realising it) so I went and tried a colour photocopy which strangely enough came out blank (cue: equally blank look). So obviously I waited until I could get some carts.. but in the mean time I noted the fact that Canon tech is different from Epson tech and for a while I was worried I'd burned out the heads.


So questions..

1. Given that you're referring to running carts dry, wouldn't this potentially result in the head not getting ink and burning out heads?

2. Given that Epson printers are waste ink queens, just how much waste is there with a canon and where does it go?



and just as a slight off topic moment..

I LOVE THIS PRINTER!!

*ahem*... ok.. just had to say that

 

[Grandad35]

Martin,

Everyone talks about how running a cart dry will "burn out" the nozzles. I have no experience with piezo nozzles, so I can't speak to that point, but I have used a HP 5550 and a Canon i9900 thermal print head printer.

At various times I have run both printers "dry" - not because they were out of ink, but because there was either a restriction in the cart or print head. In my early days with the Canon, I printed at least 10 consecutive 8x10 sheets with PM missing. If the nozzle heaters were going to "burn out", they would surely have done so with this type of abuse. What did happen, however, was that it took a lot of cleaning (Windex, alcohol, compressed air, hot water, etc.) to get the PM to print properly again. I suspect that this was because the nozzle heaters got so hot that they vaporized everything in the nozzles, plating out "kogation" on the surfaces (http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=934#p934) that had to be removed for the head to operate properly again. I also suspect that many people incorrectly attribute this type of problem to burned out nozzles and replace the print head or printer. I have similarly been able to revive a clogged HP cart/print head with a lot of work.

It would be good to define a few terms. The "Low" ink alarm comes on when the prism in the cart shows that there is no ink left in the ink chamber. At this time, there are still a few CCs in the sponge and the printer begins to count the number of drops printed for that color until it uses about 0.6 CCs of additional ink from the sponge before declaring the cart to be "Empty" and refusing to print until the cart is changed (http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=500). There are actually several CCs of link left in the sponge at this time, so a cart is not really "dry" when the printer declares it to be empty.

Perhaps someone with experience on a piezo printer can comment on any tendency to burn out these heads.

Do a search for waste ink - Craig Ross posted some excellent pictures of where the waste ink goes and how to clean it. There is also a thread on "unlocking hidden secrets" that allows you to see how full your waste ink tank is.

 

[websnail]

Thanks for that Grandad,

That was exactly the sort of information I was looking for. Much appreciated.

Martin