Canon Pixma CIS system operates with constant ink pressure.

[ocular]

I have experienced similar printout patterns when setting up CISS on my IP3000/MP730. I have always had difficulty working out was there too much or too little ink. There is no doubt that too much ink has an effect on the printout.

This is illustrated here on an IP3000.

http://www.9to6.co.uk/phpbb2/viewto...ghlight=&sid=0bbe691149aa6dbc62d0537e693c3acf

They suggest you elevate the printer, even though they would appear to using a marriott bottle system.

From practical experience I elevate my ink reservoir about an inch above the printer base level, which would seem different to above.

What is the difference between your spring system and the marriott bottle system to keep the ink level constant?

Is your IP4200 CISS using modified OEM cartridges? therefore sponged cartridges?

You have calculated that the level needs to be 1 inch below the cartridge base. However with a fully sponged CISS cartridge where should the theoretical level of ink be? As the cartridge sponge already provides the negative pressure then perhaps the level should be equal to the cartridge exit port in height.

Someone needs to design a manometer measurement system to be able to precisely set the height for each printer and reservoir setup and then many of the canon CISS problems would disappear.

Three other design features I find useful in the ideal CISS as it is inevitable that one day you will get caught out and will have to reprime is

1. A pinch mechanisn to easily close of all the tubes.
2. Twist caps that can be put back on the exit ports of the cartridges.
3. Push fit right angle connectors with silicon sleeves so the tubing can be easily removed from the cartridge.

 

[canonfodder]

I have experienced similar printout patterns when setting up CISS on my IP3000/MP730. I have always had difficulty working out was there too much or too little ink. There is no doubt that too much ink has an effect on the printout.

This is illustrated here on an IP3000.

http://www.9to6.co.uk/phpbb2/viewto...ghlight=&sid=0bbe691149aa6dbc62d0537e693c3acf

They suggest you elevate the printer, even though they would appear to using a marriott bottle system..

I don't understand that situation. Perhaps they learned to elevate the printer while working with another ink tank type which did not have the constant level character. The tank type they show is certainly of the Marriotte's Bottle variation.

What is the difference between your spring system and the marriott bottle system to keep the ink level constant?

There should be no operational difference in normal practice.

First, I was not well aware of these Marriotte's Bottle systems when I started my search for a constant ink level system. Second, I can build the spring float system out of parts that don't require plastic molding or cementing. Third, I built the present spring float system with bottles that hold up to 4 ounces of ink, which is larger than most of the commercially available CIS systems which use the Marriotte's Bottle variation.

There is a certain sensitivity to barometric pressure changes in the Marriotte's Bottle systems. If the barometric pressure drops a large amount, such as during a storm, the air above the ink in the ink tank will expand and the ink will rise in the air chamber, raising the effective ink level. How much it will rise depends on the pressure drop, how much air is in the ink tank, and the cross sectional area ratio of the main ink tank vs. the air chamber. A really big drop can expand the air in the ink tank by 7%. If the air chamber cross section is rather small, the ink may rise enough to be significantly higher than the elevation setting that was intended. Larger air chamber area is better.

Is your IP4200 CISS using modified OEM cartridges? therefore sponged cartridges?

Yes. However, the stainless steel tube which enters the cartridge extends down to the bottom of the sponge chamber. The tube ends near the exit port filter and I think the short distance through the sponge doesn't have much influence on the ink pressure. The tube ends in the ink-filled bottom of the cartridge so air cannot enter it. I added the standard screw and O ring seals at the ink fill hole to make it easy to prime the cartridges.

Someone needs to design a manometer measurement system to be able to precisely set the height for each printer and reservoir setup and then many of the canon CISS problems would disappear.

Three other design features I find useful in the ideal CISS as it is inevitable that one day you will get caught out and will have to reprime is

1. A pinch mechanisn to easily close of all the tubes.
2. Twist caps that can be put back on the exit ports of the cartridges.
3. Push fit right angle connectors with silicon sleeves so the tubing can be easily removed from the cartridge.

I used a manometer of my own arrangement to make measurements on cartridges set up outside the printer. Originally I thought that the pressure would be zero at the exit port, but I was not taking into account the capillary action of the sponge. The pressure is zero over at the point where ink comes out of the ink tank, but is negative by 1 to 2.5 inches water column at the exit port. The printhead will function normally with as little as -0.3 inches water column, but less than that and trouble starts.

I do have pinch type cutoffs on the ink tubes. I prefer the control they give. You can see the backs of them in the photo in my first post.

I use the original orange exit port covers held on by elastic bands when I have the cartridges out of the printhead.

My sharpened stainless steel tubes enter the cart where the air vent entered. I pull the ink tube off the ss tube while priming the ink tubes.

 

[canonfodder]

I first reported on my "Spring Float" CIS system in the middle of November, 2007.

Now in the middle of April, 2010, that system is still feeding ink to my Canon iP4200. That is 2 years and 5 months. It has not always worked without a printhead cleaning cycle, but that is all it usually took to make it do a good nozzle check print.
Lately, the printer has suffered the insult of no printing for over a week at-a-time. And that has been several times. It still either ran fine, or required a simple cleaning cycle to get it ready to print good color pictures.

BUT, one day last week, the cyan dissappeared. NONE ! Not a drop of cyan on the paper. It turned out that in the vinyl tubing, right down at the entrance to the cartridge, there was a blob of ink with the consistency of custard, and that blob was difficult to even blow out of the tubing.

So the ink had changed, and I didn't have a way to analize the blob, so I just flushed it out, flushed the ink cartridge, and everything returned to normal. So, was it bacteria, or yeast, or whatever? Something gelled the ink into that blob. I wish I knew what, so I might take some preventative action.

At this time, I don't have any reason to believe that my Spring Float CIS system should work any better than one of the Marriotte Bottle systems which can keep the effective ink level constant. Of course, the ink level needs to be set at the proper height for the particular printer if it is to operate properly.

As I built it, the Spring Float CIS can hold more ink than the commercially available Marriotte Bottle systems, and it could be built for even larger external bottles of ink, but that is not an issue for most home printers.

I am considering changing over to a commercial "Marriotte Bottle" type system to see just how that will go. I have owned an empty system for a year or more and have never tried it, so now seems a good time to set it up and see how well it functions. I will have the opportunity to do a complete purge, cleaning, and drying of the Spring Float system's bottles and cartridges.

With my knowledge of proper ink height for my iP4200, I expect the Marriotte Bottle CIS to work just fine. It is notable that the particular vendor that sold this CIS did not provide any clue as to proper ink height, instead simply saying to but the external bottle set on the same table as the printer. This will not produce the proper ink height for this printer.

I'll report on how it goes.

 

[websnail]

Thanks for the update CF... I had forgotten about your spring float system but was always impressed by the out of box thinking... Interesting that the springs haven't suffered too...

Cheers..

 

[aaa]

Home made CISS.

 

[pharmacist]

Hi aaa,

looks very neat, but unfortunately the website is in russian. I presume it is one of the newer Canon IP4600/4700 printer the CISS is working on.

 

[nhendrix]

aaa: устрашающий! (awesome!)

 

[aaa]

Yes, it is Marriotte Bottle type system for Canon IP4600. Ink level is 0 mm. It may be changed only in a negative, -13... 0 mm.

 

[curious7]

canonfodder,

There are many posts arguing that CIS does not work well with Canon printers.

However ir judging from your prosts they may work if constant ink pressure condition is met.

If one wanted to use CIS for Pixma IP4700 what would it be? DIY spring float CIS system? Commercial Marriotte Bottle system?

Any hints where to look for these Marriotte Bottle systems?

I would not be interested in cheapest possible CIS, but rather "cheap in long run" i.e. not damaging the printer and providing reliable operation.

Of course impotant factor ir ink quality but that seems to be discussed well in other posts.

Thanks!

 

[websnail]

IMHO, if someone could come up with a reliable method of sealing the connective point between cartridge and printhead ink receivers, they would resolve almost all the issues that I've seen in most Canon CIS systems... Of course a balances pressure system would still be a must but it's that interface and faff factor in trying to seal it that causes the most problems.

Just my 10 penneth worth of hair removed the hard way