Canon Mp500 - What Are These Tubes? - Cleaning Problem Printing Black Pigment

[Robert the Bruce]

Sorry to hi-jack this thread, but I'm currently cleaning out an old Canon MP500 which I think uses the same print/machine unit (with waste ink system).
I've just signed up here after reading some interesting discussions about cleaning print heads and purge units.
I had a problem printing black (pigment) ink after replacing the print head (the old one wasn't printing colour) Following an exhaustive Internet search, I did all the cleaning recommended (here and elsewhere) including the absorbent pads, and the tubes to the purge unit.
However, I noticed four tubes coming from the ceramic block on the capping station. I have flushed out the two which connect to the purge system, but the other two seem to resist injection, and I can't even see where they go inside! They appear to attach to two sprung arms, but more than that I can't see.
A poster asked this question on a thread over three years ago here:
http://www.printerknowledge.com/thr...ci-3-black-not-printing-in-pixma-ip3000.1143/
but never received an answer.
Does anyone know what those other two tubes are for? I want to make sure I've cleaned everything before putting the printer back together.
I will start another thread if you think it's more appropriate....

 

[stratman]

I will start another thread if you think it's more appropriate....

Welcome to the forum, Robert the Bruce!

Yes, your inquiry does deserve its own thread and should be moved. I sent a note to Admin about giving you your own thread.

Sorry to hi-jack this thread, but I'm currently cleaning out an old Canon MP500 which I think uses the same print/machine unit (with waste ink system).
I've just signed up here after reading some interesting discussions about cleaning print heads and purge units.
I had a problem printing black (pigment) ink after replacing the print head (the old one wasn't printing colour) Following an exhaustive Internet search, I did all the cleaning recommended (here and elsewhere) including the absorbent pads, and the tubes to the purge unit.

Tell us more about the Canon MP500 - was this in storage, in use, bought used and don't know its history, etc?

Does the printer give any error messages or blinking colored lights?

Tell us more about the replacement print head - did you buy a new or refurbished print head as replacement or was it a used one that had been sitting around, etc?

What about the cartridges you are using - brand new OEM or third party? Refilled or never refilled? How old are they, ie last usage, and where did they come from if not new, eg were they in the printer for weeks/months especially without being used?

However, I noticed four tubes coming from the ceramic block on the capping station. I have flushed out the two which connect to the purge system, but the other two seem to resist injection, and I can't even see where they go inside! They appear to attach to two sprung arms, but more than that I can't see.

I do not understand. What is this capping station, ceramic block, tubes, and sprung arms you refer to? Did you take apart the print head or just the printer itself? Taking the print head apart is a last ditch effort usually followed by purchasing a new print head.

As you have stated you took the printer apart, a picture of what you are referring to would be helpful for the forum members who have boldly gone where you have and come back successfully.

 

[PeterBJ]

I do not understand. What is this capping station, ceramic block, tubes, and sprung arms you refer to? Did you take apart the print head or just the printer itself? Taking the print head apart is a last ditch effort usually followed by purchasing a new print head.

As you have stated you took the printer apart, a picture of what you are referring to would be helpful for the forum members who have boldly gone where you have and come back successfully.

The capping station, the ceramic blocks and the two porous plates that distribute the vacuum evenly over the nozzles and and the sprung arms are all parts of the purge unit.

Se this post by Tandberg: http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/autopsy-of-a-purge-unit-canon-s750.7567/#post-58098

There are two ceramic or probably plastic blocks with each two holes. The hole nearest the front of the printer in each block leads to the purge pump, the other leads to the wiper blade that cleans the underside of the print head.

You find a service manual here, if you don't have it already: http://elektrotanya.com/canon_mp500_sm.pdf/download.html

For download instructions see this post: http://www.printerknowledge.com/thr...-post-them-here-sticky.5071/page-9#post-36684

Good luck with the project
Peter

 

[stratman]

The capping station, the ceramic blocks and the two porous plates that distribute the vacuum evenly over the nozzles and and the sprung arms are all parts of the purge unit.

Se this post by Tandberg: http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/autopsy-of-a-purge-unit-canon-s750.7567/#post-58098

Ahh. I see now. Thank you for the link to that great post.

 

[Nifty]

Moved for @Robert the Bruce

Thanks @stratman !

 

[PeterBJ]

The parts catalog has some assembly drawings that might also be helpful: http://diagramas.diagramasde.com/impresoras/mp500pc.pdf

 

[Robert the Bruce]

Thanks Nifty, and stratman and PeterBJ for replying.
Ah, so the other two tubes might be for the wipers? That would make sense, but how exactly do they work? Can I clean them, or indeed should I?
I will post some pictures shortly, and have a look at that parts catalogue.
I already have a copy of the service manual, but it's not terribly useful when dealing with the purge system, at least not in detail.

 

[Robert the Bruce]

Here are the images, two looking from the top and one from the bottom.
The first picture from the top shows the two tubes in question protruding from underneath the capping station. #2 shows all four little 'pipes' which connect to the tubes underneath, the top two to the 'mystery' tubes, the bottom two to the purge tubes.
The picture from the bottom shows the two purge tubes disconnected for cleaning. The other two are not visible from that angle.
Do you prefer images inline or attached to postings in this forum? What file sizes are usual?
Oh BTW the white ceramic/plastic block is low down because I rotated the cog on the right to allow me to inspect the two mystery tubes. This seems to work on a cam system and be connecting to the wiper movement.

 

[Robert the Bruce]

Welcome to the forum, Robert the Bruce!

Yes, your inquiry does deserve its own thread and should be moved. I sent a note to Admin about giving you your own thread.

Thanks for that

Tell us more about the Canon MP500 - was this in storage, in use, bought used and don't know its history, etc?
Does the printer give any error messages or blinking colored lights?

Tell us more about the replacement print head - did you buy a new or refurbished print head as replacement or was it a used one that had been sitting around, etc?

What about the cartridges you are using - brand new OEM or third party? Refilled or never refilled? How old are they, ie last usage, and where did they come from if not new, eg were they in the printer for weeks/months especially without being used?

Ok, here's a potted history.
We bought the printer new in 2006/7 (I'd have to get the receipt out for the exact date). For the first couple of years it had fairly light usage, printing both black text and colour documents. For the last 3-4 years it has been used a lot more, mainly for black text (actually printed music, direct from a scoring program or via pdf files, but I suppose that's still using the pigment black).
We had no problems with it until about 6 months ago when it started banding magenta. Cleaning cycles did not correct the problem, so I simply stopped using it for colour printing, as I didn't really know what to do about it, and its main use was for B&W.
However, with hindsight I can remember trying to print several times when the 'ink has run out' warning came up, on a couple of cartridges. That doesn't sound like a good idea now that I know more about the way Canons print and the fact that heating elements can burn out, but I just assumed the warning was conservative, and tried to get replacement cartridges asap. I also did this with the black, which didn't cause a problem until the new head.....
A couple of weeks ago I finally decided to try and get to grips with the colour problem, and after reading some forum postings (here and elsewhere) I bought a cleaning kit on ebay containing cleaning solution (mostly isopropyl alcohol with a bit of ammonia), a syringe and some blotting paper. Printing test patterns beforehand revealed that the cyan an photoblack were now only partially printing. I squirted some solution onto the pads on the capping station as recommended, and blotted the resulting inky mess, which didn't improve the situation. I then removed the print head according to the instructions, soaking it for about 20 mins in a bath of the solution. After replacement and cleaning this made the magenta and cyan slightly better, but not fully working. I then squirted some solution through the 'damper's or 'ink ports' in the head, as slowly as I could. It was after this that the yellow stopped working.
I concluded that part of the print head had burned out (and that I'd probably damaged something further during the cleaning process) and decided to buy a new print head. This was purchased via ebay from the USA, as the ones available here in the UK weren't really affordable. It claimed to be new, and certainly came in an original box and sealed foil wrapping.
I installed the new print head, and all the colours (and photoblack) worked out of the box, but there was nothing from the pigment black! I then did some cleaning, and printed a couple of test patterns and some photos, and got the black to appear slightly. I then decided to soak this new head in cleaning solution, and to inject a little into the black ink port. This improved the situation (the black was better, the colours were unchanged). Running subsequent cleaning cycles made the black get gradually better, but never fully working. I then received a 'waste ink system full' error, and believing it was conservative, reset the counter from service mode.
At some point cleaning started making things worse, to the point where black stopped printing again entirely. The pad underneath the black print head nozzles on the capping station (the long, thin one) was not collecting much ink (only part was black), so after some more research I started to suspect a waste ink system problem. After one abortive attempt (taking the top case off and squirting a bit of cleaning solution more directly onto the gasket) I eventually bit the bullet and took the printer down to the machine unit, in which state it remains.
I did note that one part of the rubber gasket seemed damaged, at the end of the area sealing to the black print nozzles. Whether this happened during previous cleaning or normal operation I do not know; neither do I know whether it has affected the vacuum.
For ink we have always used either original Canon ones (at the beginning) or refilled ones from the local Cartridge World shop (for the last 4-5 years).

I do not understand. What is this capping station, ceramic block, tubes, and sprung arms you refer to? Did you take apart the print head or just the printer itself? Taking the print head apart is a last ditch effort usually followed by purchasing a new print head.

As you have stated you took the printer apart, a picture of what you are referring to would be helpful for the forum members who have boldly gone where you have and come back successfully.

I have posted three photos of the capping station area on my previous post. I do have plenty of others taken during the disassembly if people would find them useful.

 

[stratman]

Great post on the history of your printer. We do enjoy images on the forum and yours are excellent quality. From your posts it seems you know your way around a printer and a camera. Nice.

Once you start dissembling a printer, other forum members than I have intimate knowledge of this process can help you out. PeterBJ, amongst others, is an excellent resource and his links to the Service and Parts manuals should provide helpful tips as well.

A few points I will make now, with more to come once you get your printer reassembled, are:

1) Even OEM, never refilled cartridges can become problematic if not used on a regular basis. Over time the ink can become sludged in the sponge and you will get ink starvation that may lead to nozzle burn out (as you have referred to in your post). Recommend printing something once a week that uses all cartridges, such as a nozzle check.

2) Print heads can likewise become sludged/clogged from infrequent use, faster depending on your environment and what ink manufacturer you use. It is unlikely but possible that mixing different manufacturers inks can lead to precipitate or concretions in/on the sponge or in the print head channels.

3) Aftermarket inks -- you have a fantastic merchant in your neck of the woods by the business name of Octoinkjet.com. The owner is a frequent contributor on the forum and trusted. He sells all manner of refilling equipment. You might want to look into this if your printer gets running again or with subsequent printers you may run. The ink is high quality and has withstood the test of time for function and quality. However, nothing will last as long as OEM inks for your prints.

4) I would have advised a couple different but simultaneous fronts for you to investigate before taking apart your printer. Yes, this is hindsight, but thess are typical recommendations.

a) Print, scan and upload to the forum a nozzle check.

b) Do nothing but nozzle checks unless otherwise instructed in order to decrease risk of burning out a print heat from lack of ink expelled from the print head. Never continue to print if ink is missing with a Canon printer!

c) Try a new OEM cartridge for any ink that is absent on the nozzle check. (or a new aftermarket or a trusted known working refilled cartridge as secondary measure) It might be the cartridge is sludged up and you need to flush the cartridge to return it to good printing and refilling function. Doesn't sound like this was a factor for you.

d) Purging a print head may take days. Patience is the key, as well as proper solution and technique. There are many cleaning fluid concoctions and cleaning methods. In the USA we value Windex with Ammonium D Original. There is a comparable solution in the UK that other forum members can tell you about as I do not recall at the moment the name. You can also make your own solution.

Here are a bunch of links that might be of interest to you.

http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/mp560-please-help-diagnose.6513/page-2#post-48894

http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/cleaning-solution-the-ultimate-test.5296/

http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/staples-buying-empty-cartridges.3318/page-3#post-22901

http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/photofrost-power-flush-printhead-cleaner.6347/#post-47548

http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/can-i-unscrew-pro9000-print-head.7010/page-2#post-53582

http://www.printerknowledge.com/thr...harmacists-cleaning-solution.8176/#post-63440


e) Check the function of the purge unit before taking the printer apart. Use a syringe/needle, soda straw, long eye dropper or some other implement FLOOD water on top of the purge pads. Water should POOL on top of the 2 pads. It takes more than a couple of drops to FLOOD the purge pads. The purge pads are located to the extreme right as you look into the inside of the printer. When the printer is idle or powered off, the print head rests above the purge pads. Open the lid and you will see the print head come to and stop in the middle, like when you change cartridges. Now use a flashlight to see the pads to the right. FLOOD the purge pads making sure you see a pool of water above them then close the lid and perform a simple cleaning. Open the lid and look to see if the water is now gone (the pads may even look a little less blackish). Report if you are unable to FLOOD the pads, if the POOLED water doesn't go away. Report your experience - if it worked as expected or not. Obviously, you are way past this!

f) Use either a lint free towel plus isopropyl alcohol or a soft pencil eraser to clean the contact surfaces on the print head and corresponding printer area in case oxidation is causing a problem.

g) If the logic board assay is the problem then it may damage a new print head so that the same problems reoccur even after changing a new print head. A malfunctioning print head can also damage a logic board assay.


5) Let's get you printer squared away concerning the purge system and then get your printer reassembled. Once you are back up and running, do only a nozzle check when it comes to printing anything. Post a scan of that nozzle check on the thread and we'll go from their. Until then, other forum members will help you out I am sure.

This will be a process and patience is key. Also remembering where all the bits and bobs go when rebuilding the printer is a wee bit important too. Keeping my fingers crossed you can get your printer back up and running.

Hang in there!