Canon CLI Cartridge

[jackson]

The question about swapping carts with a friend was asked.

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=85858&forum_id=40&highlight=silent_type

May 9, from silent_type, about 1/3 down.

 

[headphonesman]

The question about swapping carts with a friend was asked.

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=85858&forum_id=40&highlight=silent_type

May 9, from silent_type, about 1/3 down.

thank you Jackson, I have re-read these posts and would now make the following unsupported comments:-

1. It is still my belief that one a cart has been told its empty, it stays told its empty , whichever machine it is subsequently presented to.

2. If a cart has been told it is low it may/perhaps/possibly, ( if presented to another machine ) give the indication that it is full and good for the appropriate period of time. Of what long term use this may be I am not sure.
My experience with the anomaly occurred in June, after the posts of the 9th . I am still sure the re-set was accidental and temporary, but I live in hope.

 

[jackson]

The question about swapping carts with a friend was asked.

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=85858&forum_id=40&highlight=silent_type

May 9, from silent_type, about 1/3 down.

thank you Jackson, I have re-read these posts and would now make the following unsupported comments:-

1. It is still my belief that one a cart has been told its empty, it stays told its empty , whichever machine it is subsequently presented to.

2. If a cart has been told it is low it may/perhaps/possibly, ( if presented to another machine ) give the indication that it is full and good for the appropriate period of time. Of what long term use this may be I am not sure.
My experience with the anomaly occurred in June, after the posts of the 9th . I am still sure the re-set was accidental and temporary, but I live in hope.

Sure would like to know who's keeping track.
Is it the cart or the printer.
Unless the printer is continually writing to the cart, I can't see how 'another' printer would know a cart was low (but not low enough to trigger an 'event') and topped up.
It would be kind of tough to set up a network of dedicated souls to swap the damn things.
I think a better long term way to go (after your warranty runs out) is to come up with a method to check the ink levels,- the same way as the earlier printers did it.

 

[Grandad35]

Unless the printer is continually writing to the cart, I can't see how 'another' printer would know a cart was low (but not low enough to trigger an 'event') and topped up....

From a strictly technical point of view, it would be easy to have the chip contain a "fuseable link" that the printer could blow open when it determined that a cart was empty. In fact, it would be easy to have 2 links, with the second one for "low". I'm not saying that this is what happens, only that it is possible. This wouldn't add anything to the cost of a cart, since adding a link in the silicon or etch is free, as long as there is space. It would add a few dollars to the cost of the printer, but that is a one-time cost.

The question about swapping carts with a friend was asked.
http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view ilent_type
May 9, from silent_type, about 1/3 down.

I saw the question, but I didn't see a factual reply.

 

[jackson]

Unless the printer is continually writing to the cart, I can't see how 'another' printer would know a cart was low (but not low enough to trigger an 'event') and topped up....

From a strictly technical point of view, it would be easy to have the chip contain a "fuseable link" that the printer could blow open when it determined that a cart was empty. In fact, it would be easy to have 2 links, with the second one for "low". I'm not saying that this is what happens, only that it is possible. This wouldn't add anything to the cost of a cart, since adding a link in the silicon or etch is free, as long as there is space. It would add a few dollars to the cost of the printer, but that is a one-time cost.

The question about swapping carts with a friend was asked.
http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view ilent_type
May 9, from silent_type, about 1/3 down.

I saw the question, but I didn't see a factual reply.

Point 1, can links be unfused and would that help?
Point 2, was hoping that would slip by.

 

[Grandad35]

Point 1, can links be unfused and would that help?

Electronic fusible links would be extremely tiny. Many of the early "PROM" devices were one-time Programmable Read Only Memory that were programmed by blowing the links in the bits that should be set to 0 (or was it 1?).
http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia_term/0,2542,t=fusible+link&i=43591,00.asp

Unlike a car, where fusible links (fuses) are made to be replaceable, electronic fuses are so small (or in the silicon of a chip) that they can't be unfused.

BTW, didn't websnail report that he was able to fit a CIS system to a Canon printer with chipped carts and that the printer never complained about the carts being low or empty? Was/is this true? If so, it supplies another interesting piece of information.

 

[mikling]

The technology that is likely being used is that of one time use memory smartcards like some phonecards. Not worth the effort, tight security and not resettable and cheap enough to be disposable. It's aimed at large mfrs who make compatibles. For Momma and Poppa who want to refill, go ahead but just watch the ink level. If they used fusible type links and they probably did because they were cheap they aren't going to be resettable.
As to someone using compatible chips. Well, if you look at the Epson in the last rounds, their chips had to respond that they were "epson" for 100% compatible when enquired by the printer. Should they not do that, a nag screen pops up. Those mfs that did include the epson response withtin their compatible chips are/were being sued.
You see the future don't you? Say goodbye to cheap virgin compatible cartridges for the newest round of printers. Refilling is the only option for cheapos and the mfrs know only 5-10% of people wil do that. Within the allowance of refilling, they have allowed an alternate to fulfill their obligation of magnusson act, and still guarantee that all cartridges still come from them. Reman cartridges lose full functionality and warranty. The ideal setup for them.

 

[Grandad35]

The technology that is likely being used is that of one time use memory smartcards like some phonecards. Not worth the effort, tight security and not resettable and cheap enough to be disposable.

The technology used to record "Low" and/or "Empty" doesn't matter, as long as that is all that is being recorded on the carts IF (and this is a very big if that remains to be proven) that is the case, then it should be easy to defeat the prism so that it never sees an empty cart. The Canon web site explains how the prism works (http://www.canon.ca/digitalphotography/english/ctech_article.asp?id=90&tid=3), but their words and their schematic don't seem to agree. They say "When there is sufficient ink, the light is detected by the sensor.", but their schematic shows that light will be reflected back to the sensor only when the cart is empty.

If "not empty" is signaled by reflected light, a piece of reflective tape over the prism might work. If "not empty" is signaled by a lack of reflected light, a piece of black tape over the prism or filling the prism with dark modeling clay might work. This obviously places a large burden on the refiller to prevent a cart from running so low that the print head is starved for ink, but it would prevent the printer from telling the cart that it is low or empty, preventing it from being refilled without triggering the nag screens.

You see the future don't you? Say goodbye to cheap virgin compatible cartridges for the newest round of printers. Refilling is the only option for cheapos and the mfrs know only 5-10% of people wil do that. Within the allowance of refilling, they have allowed an alternate to fulfill their obligation of magnusson act, and still guarantee that all cartridges still come from them. Reman cartridges lose full functionality and warranty. The ideal setup for them.

What you say may be true, but this IS a forum for refillers. If 3rd party compatibles aren't available, perhaps more people will learn to refill if the process is made easy enough.

BTW, I prefer to think of myself as "frugal".

 

[ghwellsjr]

If "not empty" is signaled by reflected light, a piece of reflective tape over the prism might work. If "not empty" is signaled by a lack of reflected light, a piece of black tape over the prism or filling the prism with dark modeling clay might work.

For BCI-6 carts, it is quite easy to demonstrate that the latter of these two choices is the correct one by simply removing one or all of your cartridges from your printer. The printer will not report a bunch of empty carts. In fact, I have a set of empty carts which I put in my printer before putting in full carts to reset the ink level indicators, if necessary. I like to think of the prism as reflecting light when the cart is empty.

For the new chipped carts, the process is identical except that the printer now knows the presence/absence of a cart. In fact, Canon could argue if ever sued in court that the chips are necessary to protect the print head in case a customer leaves a cartridge out.

Grandad35, I wonder if you are the first person to notice after all these years that their explanation was inconsistent. Way to go. How do you like their animation of the cartridge being removed from the print head the wrong way?

 

[jackson]

The printer will not report a bunch of empty carts. In fact, I have a set of empty carts which I put in my printer before putting in full carts to reset the ink level indicators, if necessary. I like to think of the prism as reflecting light when the cart is empty.

Seems contradictory.
Are you saying that if you put an empty cart in the printer it will not be reported as empty, but the reflected light from the prism indicates an empty cart?
I know that if you cover the base of a cart with black tape, the cart will not change status to 'empty'.
That seems to say that the light (when the tank is full) passes through the prism and only when the ink level changes does the light reflect through the prism surfaces back to a receiver.
And the Canon site refers to 'refracted' light not 'reflected'.
Whats the diff and when does this light turn on?